BeerSmith™ Home Brewing Forum

Brewing Topics => Recipes => Topic started by: Scott Ickes on February 02, 2014, 02:48:38 PM

Title: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 02, 2014, 02:48:38 PM
I propose that we put together a beersmith recipe.  But not just any recipe.  Instead, I propose that we as a group design the recipe one forum member at a time.  With each member of the group adding an ingredient and the amount of that ingredient one step at a time and see what we come up with for a recipe.  After that, all that are interested in brewing the recipe can do so, reporting their results back to this thread.  If it turns out to be fun and successful, we can do it again, with an entirely new group of designers.

I propose that if someone is in on the first recipe, they are not elligible to contribute to the design of the second recipe or third, until we run out of interested brew designers and can start through the list again.

My suggestion is for us to have 9 brew designers.  Once I have enough volunteers, I'll pull the 9 names at random out of a hat and those will be the first beer designers and will also set what their contribution will be.  For example, first name out of the hat will be Base Grain and quantity, second name out Specialty grain and quantity, etc.

We would need the following contributions:
Base Grain and quantity.
Specialty grain and quantity.
Second specialty grain and quantity.
Third specialty grain and quantity.
First hop type, quantity and time added.
Second hop type, quantity and time added.
Third hop type, quantity and time added.
Mash temperature.
Yeast selection.

If you'd like to be in on this, please reply, "I'm In!"

Those that don't get pulled for the first recipe design, will be first up for the second recipe design.

Some suggestions:
Let's make this an ale, since not all brewers have the ability to hold fermentation temperatures for a lager.

It would be helpful to add commentary when you make your contribution, so that those following you see your line of reasoning and can follow up on your thought process. 
   (For example, if you chose the base grain, the amount you choose will have an effect on the rest of us, since it will narrow the OG range quite a bit.  If you choose 8 lbs of base malt, we're not going to be making a huge Russian Imperial Stout that would need nearly twice that amount of base grain, so give us your thoughts, such as session beer....or mid-range gravity in the 1.060 range, etc.) 
   (If you're choosing a specialty grain, tell us the character you're hoping to impart on the beer, etc.)

Those that are not pulled out of the hat, can make comments on the choices, as long as they keep it friendly and constructive.

If after seeing the comments on their contribution, the contributor would like to adjust his/her contribution, they may do so.  However, once I give the go ahead to the next contribution, the previous contribution is locked until a final review before brewing.

At the end of the contribution phase, I will post the recipe for discussion.  If one of the contributors would like a change to the final recipe, they may put it up for a vote after stating their case for the change.


Let's make this a learning experience for everyone that follows the thread.  It will help those that are new to recipe design see your thought processes as you we move through the design.

So, here is the proposed timeline:
Volunteer phase where members volunteer to be a part of the design.
Volunteers are pulled out of the hat and assigned.  The names of the volunteers will be posted with their assignment and a waiting list will be posted also, just in case someone drops out and for a reference for the possible second recipe design.
Contributor #1 makes his/her selection with thought process.
Comments from others.
Contributor #1 locks in his selection.
Contributor #2, #3, et al.
Draft Recipe is posted.
Comments on draft recipe and possible suggestions to any part of it. (Only contributors can bring a suggested change iup for a vote, but they can follow advice of non-contributors)  This allows the entire forum to be involved in each recipe design, even if they haven't been chosen for that particular one.
Voting on any suggested changes (only contributors elligible to vote on changes.
Final recipe posted.
Brew it up if you wish.
Post your results.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on February 02, 2014, 03:15:26 PM
interesting idea, but this may get complicated if someone leaves the forum or there are to many that want to take part. I'M IN for now .
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: WinnipegFats on February 03, 2014, 12:45:24 AM
Oh do I ever like this idea
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on February 04, 2014, 02:40:06 PM
I'm in!

-Dan
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 04, 2014, 05:46:03 PM
That's four, counting me.  We only need 5 more.  Who else wants in?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Maine Homebrewer on February 04, 2014, 06:10:23 PM
My first thought is an old saying: too many chefs spoil the soup.

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: WinnipegFats on February 04, 2014, 06:59:53 PM
Just wanted to point out for the next month I only have a 20 liter tun. And a 30 literally boil pot. Working on the coin to build the manifold for the 77 liter ton...we have a 80 liter boil pot though but........I live in Winnipeg...and I boil in a non heated garage. Man this is the coldest winter I have ever been through
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 04, 2014, 08:05:35 PM
Hey...this is about having some fun and maybe having some good personal thinking being brought up when you're designing a recipe, so that newer brewers can learn from the exercise.

No one has to brew it and it may never get brewed by anyone, but I doubt that.  Someone will end up making it to see how it turns out.

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: WinnipegFats on February 07, 2014, 09:03:17 PM
We need more folks in on this
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 07, 2014, 09:29:35 PM
I'm going to make a change that KernalCrush suggested.  I like his idea. 

I'm going to add another step at the very beginning for a 10th brewer.  This person will choose the style of beer.

So the new list of steps is:
Style of recipe to be designed.
Base Grain and quantity.
Specialty grain and quantity.
Second specialty grain and quantity.
Third specialty grain and quantity.
First hop type, quantity and time added.
Second hop type, quantity and time added.
Third hop type, quantity and time added.
Mash temperature.
Yeast selection.

So far we have:
Myself
Winnepeg Fats
Dan "drb11215"
all grain

We need 6 more to make a go of it.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on February 07, 2014, 09:50:31 PM
I'm in, I only brew 2.5 gal batches but got no prob scaling up a recipe and hell that's half the fun of brewing, imho. I need to improve the ol'brew knowledge anyway, so take it easy on me if my input seems to be from left field.

-Steve
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 07, 2014, 10:37:25 PM
Welcome to our little experiment!  5 down, 5 to go!

The list is now:

Myself
Winnepeg Fats
Dan "drb11215"
all grain
Steve "bucknut"

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Roadrocket on February 16, 2014, 04:11:42 PM
OK count me in. Its an interesting idea.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 16, 2014, 05:11:39 PM
6 down, 4 to go.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: grathan on February 17, 2014, 03:11:12 PM
I would do it, but only with the right to object or override certain ingredients. For example, I am not a fan of coriander spice. If I agree to brew and someone suggest coriander I would lose interest even though I have already committed. Or perhaps someone suggest Mosiac hops, and yet they might be hard for me to get etc..
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 17, 2014, 08:46:28 PM
I would do it, but only with the right to object or override certain ingredients. For example, I am not a fan of coriander spice. If I agree to brew and someone suggest coriander I would lose interest even though I have already committed. Or perhaps someone suggest Mosiac hops, and yet they might be hard for me to get etc..

There are no adjuncts to be added to this recipe.  The purpose is to give insight to each other one why you chose a certain malt, hop your yeast.  Also to give insight on your suggested mash temp, etc.

It is intended to be a learning experience for both the new and old to brewing.

Also, just because a certain hop or malt is in the final recipe, it doesn't mean you can't change it up on your own.  I only ask that if you decide to brew this (with or without changes), you tell us about your experience and the results, including how it tastes compared to what you expected it to taste like.

Can I count you as in Grathan?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: grathan on February 18, 2014, 04:25:12 AM
Sure, sounds good.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 18, 2014, 09:25:47 AM
Thanks Grathan.  Welcome aboard.

Only three spots left.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on February 19, 2014, 02:37:55 AM
Beam me up scotty.
Sorry, I had to. im in.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on February 19, 2014, 02:39:27 AM
Also, scott, maybe we can do this as a homebrew club thing as well. Do you guys ever do competitions within the club?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 19, 2014, 12:40:33 PM
Also, scott, maybe we can do this as a homebrew club thing as well. Do you guys ever do competitions within the club?

We've talked about it.  We're going to do a potluck party at my house sometime in the future.  We'll each bring a food dish to share and a beer ingredient.  We'll sift through the beer ingredients and come up with a beer to brew on my equipment.  We'll then bottle it and share it amongst ourselves at a future pot luck party.

We've discussed an in club brewing championship also.  Bring up any ideas you have at our monthly meetings.

8 down, 2 to go.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on February 24, 2014, 07:37:51 AM
well so far so good. looks like where're almost there. I've got to say that the more I think about this idea the more I like it. one thing, the waiting is killing me. I have not brewed for all most 3 weeks and that's a 10 month record for me. been brewing every week or two for 30 batches now, so please someone jump on board so we can light this fuse.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 24, 2014, 08:20:42 AM
I'm mildly interested in this, simply for the challenge of it, but I've not had a great experience with collaborative recipe making in the past. I've almost exclusively designed my own recipes, sometimes using recipes I've found as inspiration or general guidelines, and I've never brewed a kit (at least not an AG kit).

When I participated in a community brew before, the beer ended up interesting but not very good--drinkable, but you had to have a real tolerance for weird. It was fairly universally panned by all who participated. So you have a potential here to create something fun to brew but too bizarre to drink... or you can create something entirely banal, and that's not very fun. As long as this recipe is created with an adventurous spirit but a heavy dose of reality and common sense, and a judicious blend of democracy (meaning the majority can overrule a truly off-the-wall suggestion if it clearly is not befitting of the greater good), then it could work.

My bigger concern is the suggestion that "you don't have to brew the recipe exactly as designed." If not, then why participate in this experiment at all? To me, the reason for this experiment is to establish a baseline from which everyone can share their experience and converse on it meaningfully. If we're all allowed to go off on tangents and change this or that in the recipe, what is the point of a collaborative recipe? Since the participants in the experiment are not likely going to be sharing their creation with all of the other participants, there is no frame of reference if you start talking about what your modifications did to the resulting beer. This isn't like a brew club meeting where you can take in your beer and get the collective opinions of your fellow homebrewers. The recipe is our "control," and it's our various equipment, processes and experience that should be the variables. An experiment like this is less about the end product itself and more about the perceptions of that end product--if that makes sense.

What I'm suggesting is that if you decide to change any ingredient in the recipe, that you don't participate in the conversation regarding the final beer. Certainly, anyone can brew anything they want, but if I'm going to participate in a collaborative experiment, it must be a true collaboration. Otherwise, I'll just go ahead and brew any old thing I want.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 25, 2014, 12:26:37 AM
My main goal is for us to pass down some of the thought processes we go through when designing our recipes.  There are always new brewers joining this forum that want to design their own recipes, but don't know where to start.

As for having the option to not brew the recipe, far be it from me to tell someone what they have to brew or not.  That is not my decision to make, nor do I want to create a rule such as that.  I do believe that many people will brew the recipe and we will get constructive feedback from those brewers.

This isn't about creating the perfect recipe.  It's about helping other brewers, be they new or advanced.  We can all learn from one another.

The guidelines were put in place so that we end up designing a "to style" recipe.  I hope that you or others will join us.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: BILLY BREW on February 25, 2014, 07:45:33 AM
Can I play?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 25, 2014, 09:37:55 AM
Can I play?

Absolutely!

9 down - 1 to go...
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 25, 2014, 10:23:55 AM
Alright, just to say I helped get this project rolling, I'll volunteer as #10 (does that mean I'm first on the bench?). I think the idea is good here, but whether I brew it or not will depend on whether there is a quorum of others who decide to brew it as-is, so we can compare meaningful notes on our experiences.

Let's rock.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 25, 2014, 11:37:56 AM
Welcome CM!

I'm going to put all the names in a hat and pull them out.  I'll post the order in a few minutes.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 25, 2014, 12:00:08 PM
Here we go!

Here is the order, as I drew it out of a cardboard box.  I didn't have a hat handy.

DRB1215 -              Style of recipe to be designed.
Road Rocket -         Base Grain and quantity.
All Grain -               Specialty grain and quantity.
Scott Ickes -           Second specialty grain and quantity.
Brewmex41 -          Third specialty grain and quantity.
WinnepegFats -      First hop type, quantity and time added.
Billy Brew -              Second hop type, quantity and time added.
Bucknut -                Third hop type, quantity and time added.
Grathan -                Mash temperature.
CMBrougham -        Yeast selection.

dbr1215You're up.  Please select a style of beer for us to brew.  Please tell us why you'd like to design this style.  According to the rules, it has to be in the "Ale" category.  Once you've made your choice, it will be open for discussion. 

To all:Let's play nice here!  Try to keep your comments friendly and tactful with every step of the design.  If the style isn't something you normally brew or drink, think of it as a learning experience.  Once each decision is locked in, I'll move this along to the next contributor.

Also, please remember, there are other contributors coming up after you on grains and hops, so if you're first up, you don't have to necessarily get all of the gravity or bitterness with your selection. 

Once we've went through the entire recipe, we can make adjustments at the end, based on the opinions of the group.  The goal is to create a great beer recipe and have fun while doing it.

Sooooooooooo....Dan....what is your style choice?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 25, 2014, 12:11:12 PM
Thanks for setting this up, Scott--should be an interesting and illuminating process and experiment!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: MRMARTINSALES on February 26, 2014, 02:02:35 AM
im in
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 26, 2014, 02:15:26 AM
im in

We're all full for this one.  I'll put you on the waiting list for this one.  If someone drops out, you'll be first in line to replace them.

You may comment, ask questions, make suggestions on this one.  You are definitely the first one in on the next one that we do.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on February 26, 2014, 06:31:08 PM
Here we go,  and sorry for the late reply!

Giving some thought into a style with so many contributors I came up with :

Robust Porter (12B)

It's a style that has lots of possibilities,  and a good way to use up extra grain you may have left over.

Happy Brewing!
-Dan
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 26, 2014, 06:35:04 PM
Nice. I'm all +1 and stuff on that style choice. I love a good porter, so this will make the experiment more interesting (for me, anyway).
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on February 26, 2014, 06:38:18 PM
That is a fantastic choice. I have a good base recipe for a cream porter that i have been making changes to. I just did a porter with powdered peanut butter and lactose on Saturday.

Im excited for this one.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on February 26, 2014, 06:58:04 PM
this choice is good for me also. I have been thinking of brewing a porter for a while now. I can almost taste it already. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 26, 2014, 07:33:50 PM
So, how will the "voting" work on each phase of the design process? Do we have to reach a quorum, or is a general vibe of "yeah, that's cool--next" enough?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 26, 2014, 09:18:08 PM
Great choice Dan!  +1 coming your way!!!  It is a style that most people like making and drinking.  I just posted in the recipe threads on my Brews Brothers Porter which is made in this style.  I'm very curious to see how closely it resembles that one, or if it moves away from what I made.

As for what we're going to do moving foward.  We will have comments, suggestions, etc. at each stage.  If I see that their are no major objections, I'll move it on to the next step in the process.  If we have concerns, we'll deal with them as a group.  Hopefully, we'll have a consensus eventually.  We seem to have a positive consensus on the style choice already, so we'll move to step two and Road Rocket.

Road Rocket:Please give us your base grain choice and quantity, with your reasoning for your choice.  Please provide your thought processes on the base grain and the quantity both.

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 26, 2014, 09:28:27 PM
I thought it would be a good idea to post the style guidelines as guidance for everyone.  I know that you can look it up in beersmith or online, but having it in the thread might be easier for everyone.

Robust Porter:

Type: Ale
Category Number: 12B
Original Gravity: 1.048-1.065 SG
Color: 22.0-35.0 SRM
Final Gravity: 1.012-1.016 SG
Bitterness: 25.0-50.0 IBUs
Carbonation: 1.80-2.50 Vols
Alcohol by Volume: 4.80-6.50 %


Description: A substantial, malty dark ale with a complex and flavorful roasty character. Stronger, hoppier and/or roastier version of porter designed as either a historical throwback or an American interpretation of the style. Traditional versions will have a more subtle hop character (often English), while modern versions may be considerably more aggressive. Both types are equally valid. Although a rather broad style open to brewer interpretation, it may be distinguished from Stout as lacking a strong roasted barley character. It differs from a brown porter in that a black patent or roasted grain character is usually present, and it can be stronger in alcohol. Roast intensity and malt flavors can also vary significantly. May or may not have a strong hop character, and may or may not have significant fermentation by-products; thus may seem to have an “American” or “English” character.

Profile:

Aroma: Roasty aroma (often with a lightly burnt, black malt character) should be noticeable and may be moderately strong. Optionally may also show some additional malt character in support (grainy, bready, toffee-like, caramelly, chocolate, coffee, rich, and/or sweet). Hop aroma low to high (US or UK varieties). Some American versions may be dry-hopped. Fruity esters are moderate to none. Diacetyl low to none.

Appearance: Medium brown to very dark brown, often with ruby- or garnet-like highlights. Can approach black in color. Clarity may be difficult to discern in such a dark beer, but when not opaque will be clear (particularly when held up to the light). Full, tan-colored head with moderately good head retention.

Flavor: Moderately strong malt flavor usually features a lightly burnt, black malt character (and sometimes chocolate and/or coffee flavors) with a bit of roasty dryness in the finish. Overall flavor may finish from dry to medium-sweet, depending on grist composition, hop bittering level, and attenuation. May have a sharp character from dark roasted grains, although should not be overly acrid, burnt or harsh. Medium to high bitterness, which can be accentuated by the roasted malt. Hop flavor can vary from low to moderately high (US or UK varieties, typically), and balances the roasted malt flavors. Diacetyl low to none. Fruity esters moderate to none.

Mouthfeel: Medium to medium-full body. Moderately low to moderately high carbonation. Stronger versions may have a slight alcohol warmth. May have a slight astringency from roasted grains, although this character should not be strong.

Ingredients: May contain several malts, prominently dark roasted malts and grains, which often include black patent malt (chocolate malt and/or roasted barley may also be used in some versions). Hops are used for bittering, flavor and/or aroma, and are frequently UK or US varieties. Water with moderate to high carbonate hardness is typical. Ale yeast can either be clean US versions or characterful English varieties.

Examples: Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter, Meantime London Porter, Anchor Porter, Smuttynose Robust Porter, Sierra Nevada Porter, Deschutes Black Butte Porter, Boulevard Bully! Porter, Rogue Mocha Porter, Avery New World Porter, Bell’s Porter, Great Divide Saint Bridget’s Porter
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on February 26, 2014, 10:09:52 PM
Thanks Scott for posting info about the style!

Just so that we have some consistency in this adventure in homebrewing, as well as having a way to label our recipe which I hope will eventually end up in the recipe section of the BeerSmith website...how about naming it:

Collaboration Porter  simple, but to the point!

-Dan
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 26, 2014, 11:24:41 PM
Thanks Scott for posting info about the style!

Just so that we have some consistency in this adventure in homebrewing, as well as having a way to label our recipe which I hope will eventually end up in the recipe section of the BeerSmith website...how about naming it:

Collaboration Porter  simple, but to the point!

-Dan

I second the nomination for Collaboration Porter. 

All those in favor say "Aye".
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 26, 2014, 11:46:20 PM
Here are some other links that you might find helpful in designing a beer recipe and specifically a Porter Recipe.  Credit should go to Brad Smith for these articles.  Thanks Brad!

http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/03/01/beer-styles-making-a-porter-recipe/

http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/02/27/making-full-body-beer-at-home/

http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/01/27/beer-recipe-design/
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on February 27, 2014, 06:52:26 AM
aye
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 27, 2014, 07:06:30 AM
Since "Robust Porter" as a style is open to a lot of interpretation, and is acknowledged as having fairly distinct localized characteristics, e.g. British vs. American, should the style picker set our course? Or do we just let what happens, happen?

I had been thinking about the name the other day before Collaboration Porter was suggested. Our biggest local brewery has a seasonal called Publican Porter--I liked the name of that, as it calls to mind a communal meeting place and the exchange of ideas. That turned into "Community Porter" in my mind, and because I'm a way-back computer geek, that was shortened to "Com Port." It's both a physical and virtual means for devices to communicate. Sound familiar? :) I'm cool with whatever.

One other thought: if it's possible, it might be good to make a new "sticky" post at the beginning of this thread that contains the contents of the evolving recipe. This where it would be cool if BS had an online recipe designing component, similar to that of some of the other web-based design tools. I'm sure we'll all be designing along in the software, but it would be helpful to have a reference we can go back to to check that we're all on the same page.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 27, 2014, 07:21:03 AM
I think we should let happen, what happens.  The person that picks the ingredients that send it towards either a British or American style can tell us why they wanted to do that.  That's why I attached the different blogs of Brads, etc.  To give everyone the background of the style so that they could make that choice.

As for making it a Sticky, I haven't the first clue how to do that.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 27, 2014, 03:22:50 PM
I learned something new today.  At least is was new for me.  Baltic Porter is usually made with a lager yeast.  Some of our brewers may not have the ability to proper hold lager temperatures.  Since our recipe design is for an Ale Yeast, we should stay away from a Baltic Porter.  Robust or Brown Porters are better candidates. 

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Roadrocket on February 27, 2014, 03:27:53 PM
So. It's my choice for the Base Malt.

Porter is an English style so I choose 11 lbs (5 Kg) of Maris Otter as the base.

Maris Otter is an easy to handle and very "forgiving" malt. It's also very consistent in quality being a single variety. More importantly, the unique flavour is superior to modern malts which are mostly grown for high yield and ease of production for the grower. This is going to be a great beer so we only want to use the best ingredients.

I also think an English ingredient will add to the collaborative spirit of this enterprise. If others choose American ingredients it will be perfect and add to that spirit (but I hope I'll be able to get them).

I did consider choosing Mild Ale Malt which I find good for making a dark beer like Porter. It's kilned darker than pale malt and produces a slightly sweeter wort. It's used mainly for Brown and Mild Ales. I think it's probably hard to get hold of outside the UK so I chose something easier.

I openly admit to being biased in my choice. I don't live far from Warminster Maltings where they've been floor malting barley, by hand, for hundreds of years. Their Maris Otter is grown on selected farms in the chalk hills of Wiltshire and produces a fine skinned crispy sweet malt. I think it's wonderful to be able to buy fresh ingredients, locally grown in God's good soil which are hand crafted, with genuine pride, by people who care. It makes a world of difference to the final beer.

I believe MO is easy enough for everybody to get hold of. I guess you'll tell me if it's not.

For a 5 Gallon batch (19L) 11 lbs should give about 5.5% abv more or less depending on your efficiency and sparge method. I think this amount should keep the ABV in style when the other grains are added.

I've chosen a batch size of 20L in Beersmith with a total efficiency of 70%. This gives me an initial ABV 0f 5.5% using Crisp Maris Otter. If we all use those same figures then we will all get the same base recipe which we can later adjust to suit our own equipment. We can all then make the same beer, or near enough.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on February 27, 2014, 03:32:58 PM
Dang i just bought a bulk sack of pale 2 row Haha.
Ok Scott, what do you got? Im thinking about my selection while i wait for your reply.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 27, 2014, 06:05:24 PM
Comments?  Suggestions? 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 27, 2014, 06:41:21 PM
Dang i just bought a bulk sack of pale 2 row Haha.
Ok Scott, what do you got? Im thinking about my selection while i wait for your reply.

We can meet at Baders and split a bag of Maris Otter.  We'll each get 27.5 pounds for $30.  Does this sound good to you?

We can even brew it together, side by side.  My system is portable.  If your system is portable, you can come over here, as well.   I have a two car garage dedicated to brewing.  I even have a utility sink and outside water close by for your chiller.

We can share a homebrew or 5, talk beer and brew collaboration porter.

Also, I'm brewing Saturday at 9 a.m.  Matt and Ryan from the club are coming over to brew with me and bringing their systems.  I'm brewing 10 gallons.  You're welcome to join us.  My address is 16007 NE 101st Way, Vancouver, WA.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 27, 2014, 06:58:31 PM
Maris Otter is my favorite base malt--obviously, you were picking up on the MO vibes I was sending out :) It just so happens that I split a fresh bag with two other brewers this week. Great choice.

I would have loved to have tried the mild ale malt; I can actually get that at my local HB supply. Many of the bigger/better supply shops in the US have it now, as well, so it would be a possibility for pretty much anyone to get it here. That said, MO is fantastic and gets my wholehearted vote.

Rather than ABV (at least at this stage) we should be focusing on OG. For example, I brew 5 gallon (roughly 19L) batches, and my system is capable of hitting 80-84%. Going by your volumes and efficiency, that equates to an estimated OG of 1.055, by the contribution of the base malt alone. Is that what you're seeing? Ultimately, we'll have to design the recipe based on ingredient percentages, I think--I'm not sure I could get 70% if I tried!

Hopefully knowing estimated OG will help each participant make their suggestion for each additional ingredient with a little more knowledge of the beer as it forms.

(Now I'm just hoping someone says "brown malt!")
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 27, 2014, 07:21:38 PM
Maris Otter is my favorite base malt--obviously, you were picking up on the MO vibes I was sending out :) It just so happens that I split a fresh bag with two other brewers this week. Great choice.

I would have loved to have tried the mild ale malt; I can actually get that at my local HB supply. Many of the bigger/better supply shops in the US have it now, as well, so it would be a possibility for pretty much anyone to get it here. That said, MO is fantastic and gets my wholehearted vote.

Rather than ABV (at least at this stage) we should be focusing on OG. For example, I brew 5 gallon (roughly 19L) batches, and my system is capable of hitting 80-84%. Going by your volumes and efficiency, that equates to an estimated OG of 1.055, by the contribution of the base malt alone. Is that what you're seeing? Ultimately, we'll have to design the recipe based on ingredient percentages, I think--I'm not sure I could get 70% if I tried!

Hopefully knowing estimated OG will help each participant make their suggestion for each additional ingredient with a little more knowledge of the beer as it forms.

(Now I'm just hoping someone says "brown malt!")

I agree.  I'm getting 1.055 with my equipment too.  I think we should be shooting for the Maris Otter to bring the gravity up to about 1.050-1.052 max.  I'm thinking closer to 10 lbs. or less. 

Anybody else have an opinion.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 27, 2014, 07:33:11 PM
To get 1.055 with my system at 80%, that's 9# of MO (and lately I've been dialing it in a bit more and am getting closer to 82-83%). That's a decent sized grain bill to start, and if we're going to stay "to style," that leaves 0.010 SG until we breach the max at 1.065. We might potentially hit that with the addition of three specialty malts yet--especially with something like a porter that will need respectable amounts of any given malt to make its presence known.

Maybe the most logical thing is just to make a first pass where the grain bill is assembled, making best guesses at required amounts, and then have a round of tweaking where the amounts are adjusted slightly to achieve the theoretical desired effect. Thoughts on that?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 27, 2014, 07:36:53 PM
To get 1.055 with my system at 80%, that's 9# of MO (and lately I've been dialing it in a bit more and am getting closer to 82-83%). That's a decent sized grain bill to start, and if we're going to stay "to style," that leaves 0.010 SG until we breach the max at 1.065. We might potentially hit that with the addition of three specialty malts yet--especially with something like a porter that will need respectable amounts of any given malt to make its presence known.

Maybe the most logical thing is just to make a first pass where the grain bill is assembled, making best guesses at required amounts, and then have a round of tweaking where the amounts are adjusted slightly to achieve the theoretical desired effect. Thoughts on that?

I like this idea.  I suggest we back it down to at least 10 lbs. for now.  Once we get all of the specialty grains chosen, we'll look at the percentages, SRM, gravity, etc. and see where we're at.  I think that once we get all of the specialty grains chosen, and know where the percentages are, it will be easier to dial it in.  For example, if the base malt is too high of a percentage, we'll have a tough time hitting our SRM range. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on February 27, 2014, 07:42:47 PM
MO sounds good to me. used a 50# sack of that about 20 batches ago and back then, I was using Nottingham yeast, thought my fermenter was go to need a blow off tube. If I remember right I had to change air locks every 6 hours for a day and 1/2.
 looking back I should have fermented at a little lower of a temp.
As far as the amount, I agree with scott we can always adjust it latter.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 27, 2014, 07:46:03 PM
Cool. Let's call it 10# for now. Practically speaking, designing the recipe in this fashion--starting where you think you need to be, adding additional layers, adjusting their amounts--is what you do when you're designing a recipe on your own (or at least that's what I do). We're just replicating that on a multiuser scale.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 27, 2014, 08:01:29 PM
10 lbs of Maris Otter it is! 

I guess I'm up then.

I've been mulling this one over. 

Robust Porter style works well with some grainy, malty flavor and aroma with some sweetness.  Ruby and garnet highlights in the color are sometimes present.  A higher kilned malt that provides the grainy, malty flavor and aroma, with some added sweetness fits well with the style.  Adding the beginnings of some of the Ruby and garnet highlights, will give some options to the other grains to be added after this, giving them some flexibility in their choices.

My suggestion is to add 1.5 lbs of Munich Malt to the mix, with an SRM of 9 as found in German Munich Malt.  This will fit with the Robust Porter style of an English version, as that would be the most likely used Munich Malt back in the day.  I don't think a U.S. Munich Malt is the best choice, although the U.S. 10L and 20L versions wouldn't be in appropriate. 

I use a lot of Munich Malt and find that it adds a deeper malty flavor to many of my beers.  I use it when I want to the maltiness and a little sweetness too.  I also like how the orange-amber color that it imparts, intensifies the colors of other grains (such as crystal, Black Patent, Chocolate, and Roasted Barley).

As far as the percentage of Munich Malt in the total grain bill, I think 8.5% to 10%.  I'm leaning towards the 8.5% in my mind.

Thoughts?  Suggestions?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on February 27, 2014, 08:10:41 PM
Slightly off topic here, but i brewed a peanut butter porter this weekend.
I used 11lb 2 row, 3/4lb chocolate malt and 2 lb of Red X malt. Basicaly the same as Munich malt I think. It will be a while before its ready, but im hoping the red x brings adifferent flavor I wouldn't normally find in an american porter
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on February 27, 2014, 08:59:16 PM
no experience with the  Munich Malt but no objection here.  just a quick question, how long do we wait for everyone to way in on what's been done so far.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 27, 2014, 09:09:27 PM
I was probably pretty quick on the draw with mine, but I couldn't imagine anyone protesting a classic base malt like Maris Otter.  Since the actually quantity can be finalized later, it seemed appropriate to move it along.

For the Munich Malt, I'll give it a day or two, to make sure everyone has a chance to weigh in.  The specialty grains is much more dependent on each persons particular taste, so I think giving it more time is the best way to go.

We'll probably give plenty of time on the hops too. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on February 27, 2014, 09:36:36 PM
I'm ok with the grain selection thud far
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on February 27, 2014, 09:39:56 PM
ya I have my grain picked out but going to sleep on it and call it a night. as far as the otter malt go's that's the one we needed to know about to go forward. I'll make my choice when I get the go-ahead.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 28, 2014, 12:02:20 AM
I must apologize.  I read a reply and thought I was up next.  I didn't look back at the actual oder and went out of turn. 

I rescind my Munich Malt selection.  It was actually "All Grain's" turn.

So far we officially have:
Robust Porter selected
10 lbs of Maris Otter base malt selected

All Grain:
Please make your selection for the first specialty malt.  Your selection may or may not change what I do after you.  This just got real interesting for me!

Once again, my apologies.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on February 28, 2014, 01:47:09 AM
I'm sorry Scott, that was my fault. I thought you were next at the time I posted that.

I was wondering, perhaps, if we could talk a little more about the adjunct clause you mentioned.
Say all grain chooses Munich malt and you decide to go with chocolate malt for color and flavor additions. I could either chose something like crystal 60* because I put that in every porter I've brewed thus far, or I could say let's add half pound of lactose sugar to really add a layer of complexion.

These are hypotheticals and depend of course on your selections, but I thought i would ask the group for their opinions.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 28, 2014, 02:22:37 AM
I'm sorry Scott, that was my fault. I thought you were next at the time I posted that.

I was wondering, perhaps, if we could talk a little more about the adjunct clause you mentioned.
Say all grain chooses Munich malt and you decide to go with chocolate malt for color and flavor additions. I could either chose something like crystal 60* because I put that in every porter I've brewed thus far, or I could say let's add half pound of lactose sugar to really add a layer of complexion.

These are hypotheticals and depend of course on your selections, but I thought i would ask the group for their opinions.

Let's not get ahead.  Let all grain make his selection.  We'll see where that leads.  Then I'll make my selection and we'll see where that leads.  One step at a time.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on February 28, 2014, 06:33:55 AM
So much excitement with the collaboration that there is some gun jumping going on :)

Since this is becoming a rather large thread, can we have a post after each selection is approved that shows the running total so that we don't have to venture back into the thread to find out what is included?  Something big and bold like (with nothing else in the post, so that it is easy to spot):

Running Total
!0 pounds Maris Otter
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on February 28, 2014, 07:45:47 AM
while the coffee is clearing my head, I started to think that coffee looks like porter, but never got the coffee beer thing.
I see coffee malts out there that are used in porters a lot and I do not know enough about them to use as my selection so I'm going to play it safe for my first porter and choose  "English Chocolate Malt" 3/4 to a # or so will do. all right let the comments roll. hey this is fun!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on February 28, 2014, 07:51:07 AM
+1 on the English Chocolate Malt.  Nice color with a mild roast flavor.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 28, 2014, 08:10:17 AM
Sounds good; pretty standard porter ingredient. Depending on how big the grain bill gets, and what sort of other malts make it into the recipe, we may need a solid pound of it to get the character to come through. We're talking "robust" porter here :)
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on February 28, 2014, 09:37:55 AM
Hey guys, sorry I haven't been inputting got side tracked by "life". I'm a noob when comes to the porter style but I'll try and keep up.

I've yet to use MO so I'm ALL for it. Going to "bone up" on all grain's suggestion of english chocolate malt and post back later.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 28, 2014, 11:09:23 AM
I have to head out to visit a customer for my "real" job.  I'll comment later when I get back.  Seems like a solid choice on the surface of it though.  I used a pound of pale chocolate malt in my last porter.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 28, 2014, 04:25:29 PM
Any other comments or suggestions on the english chocolate malt?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on February 28, 2014, 04:32:25 PM
Any other comments or suggestions on the english chocolate malt?

+1 on the english choco malt, has a smooth roast character that should do nice! 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: KernelCrush on February 28, 2014, 04:45:09 PM
As an outsider from the group, and I don't mean to overstep, but you may want to monitor your DP as you go forward.   Published sources list MO at 50-120 DP.  Depends on your maltster. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on February 28, 2014, 07:22:36 PM
As an outsider from the group, and I don't mean to overstep, but you may want to monitor your DP as you go forward.   Published sources list MO at 50-120 DP.  Depends on your maltster.

Would a bit of wheat malt help, with a thinner longer mash time? I know wheat malt is not used alot in porters but a small amount may help?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 28, 2014, 08:18:05 PM
I think any modern MO has more than enough DP to take care of what we're making here.

Is there a specific maltster/roast level for the chocolate malt? There are some variances depending on the source.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on February 28, 2014, 08:30:02 PM
Simpsons Chocolate Malt was the only producer of english chocolate malt I could find.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 28, 2014, 08:51:09 PM
There should be many more options than that--not only is there Simpsons, but also Fawcett, Crisp, Muntons, Bairds, and probably some others I'm not thinking of. These range from ~225L up to (and I'm not sure if I believe this, but it's what the Interwebs says) 600L. There are pale chocolate, "plain" chocolate, and dark chocolate varieties.

Point is, there is a lot of variability out there that could result in two rather different beers, all things being equal.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on February 28, 2014, 09:06:16 PM
I was thinking about a chocolate malt that is between 300 400L . don't know if there will be substantial differences between maltsters but we should name one. I can get   Simpsons  for sure.   any input is welcome .   
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on February 28, 2014, 09:14:04 PM
Sounds good. I suspect that as long as we're within range, there's not going to be much difference.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on February 28, 2014, 10:46:16 PM
I have 3 brew stores local to me, so I should be able to find the right chocolate malt.  I think that I can get it in 200L, 350L and 400L.

I think that the Lovibond should be the same for everyone though.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on February 28, 2014, 11:12:41 PM
I would like to vote for pale chocolate malt. 180-220* lovibond. I think it would add a soft coffee/chocolate depth and would still leave room for another specialty grain. I would like to see this brew end up on the maltier side, with lower levels of roasty flavors you might get from a darker chocolate malt.


That is just my thought, here, folks.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 01, 2014, 03:11:26 PM
just a update here on my end, I just talk to my suppler of grains about M.O malt. he gets crisp and the D.P is 140 on that so no problems converting there. crisp is what l'll be using. Of course I would not expect everyone to use the same base malt maltser and IMO we will get good feedback on the different suppliers malts, if we don't use the same ones. is this a good assumption or not?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 01, 2014, 03:15:30 PM
just a update here on my end, I just talk to my suppler of grains about M.O malt. he gets crisp and the D.P is 140 on that so no problems converting there. crisp is what l'll be using. Of course I would not expect everyone to use the same base malt maltser and IMO we will get good feedback on the different suppliers malts, if we don't use the same ones. is this a good assumption or not?

I think it is.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: KernelCrush on March 01, 2014, 04:11:07 PM
http://www.crispmalt.co/content/brewery (http://www.crispmalt.co/content/brewery)

I don't think for a minute that any MO is 140.  That approaching 6-row.  I learned a long time ago not to trust every hobo behind a counter.  I rely on malsters data.  Not saying it wont work, wish I never brought it up. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 01, 2014, 05:38:26 PM
Time to move on.

It seems we're going with 1# of 200L English Chocolate Malt.

Where were at now.

Running Total
10 pounds Maris Otter
1 pound of English Chocolate Malt 200L

I think I'm up next.

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 01, 2014, 05:41:46 PM
As before...

My suggestion is to add 1.5 lbs of Munich Malt to the mix, with an SRM of 9 as found in German Munich Malt.  This will fit with the Robust Porter style of an English version, as that would be the most likely used Munich Malt back in the day.  I don't think a U.S. Munich Malt is the best choice, although the U.S. 10L and 20L versions wouldn't be in appropriate. 

I use a lot of Munich Malt and find that it adds a deeper malty flavor to many of my beers.  I use it when I want to the maltiness and a little sweetness too.  I also like how the orange-amber color that it imparts, intensifies the colors of other grains (such as crystal, Black Patent, Chocolate, and Roasted Barley).

As far as the percentage of Munich Malt in the total grain bill, I think 8.5% to 10%.  I'm leaning towards the 8.5% in my mind.

I also think it will work well with the English Chocolate Malt.

Thoughts?  Suggestions?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Roadrocket on March 01, 2014, 07:41:54 PM
German Munich Malt is a fine choice. I've never used it myself but I've always wanted to. St Austell Tribute, one of my favourite cask bitters, uses a lot of it and it tastes great. I'd go for 10% myself. Porter needs a lot of malty caramel flavour. I think it will work perfectly with the other malts.

Light chocolate is also perfect. It's less harsh and has a more complex flavour than dark chocolate. It adds a nice amount of roastiness and a smooth, smoky, vanilla tone. I once made the mistake of adding some roasted barley to a Porter which turned it into a stout. It tasted great but it wasn't porter.

All Grain, your supplier was quite correct. Crisp MO does have a DP of 140 as stated on the Crisp website. I made an IPA a couple of months ago using 6Kg of Crisp MO and some White Labs WL007 Yeast. It took off like a bucket full of piranhas.

It's great that you guys are choosing malts available outside America otherwise I won't be able to brew it. Thank you.

The next grain choice will be crucial as it's the last. I'll then look forward to seeing what hops you blokes are going to choose.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 01, 2014, 08:27:26 PM
So right now we are at
10lb MO
1.5 German Munich
1lb English Pale Chocolate malt

I am okay with the Munich addition as well and once everyone chimes in I think i will be able to make my last addition.

Right now I am getting these estimated stats:
OG: 1.060
Srm: 21
Roughly 6% abv but the fg on my recipe builder app is never right.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 01, 2014, 08:38:33 PM
Hmm... right now, this is massive beer, with a ton of malt character, potentially rather sweet, and somewhat lacking in portery-ness. I'm at an OG of 1.074 and an SRM of 19.9, calculated for my system. I fear the pale chocolate (never brewed with it, so I'm not positive) is going to be a bit stepped on by the heavy-handedness of all the malt. Don't get me wrong--I'm way more of a malthead than a hophead--but I think there needs to be enough other things going on to have this assert itself as a porter, and not just a malty brown ale.

I think I'm the only dissenting voice so far, but I'll acquiesce to the majority. Interested to see what specialty #3 will be, as that's going to dictate the nature of this beer.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 01, 2014, 08:52:22 PM
Hmm... right now, this is massive beer, with a ton of malt character, potentially rather sweet, and somewhat lacking in portery-ness. I'm at an OG of 1.074 and an SRM of 19.9, calculated for my system. I fear the pale chocolate (never brewed with it, so I'm not positive) is going to be a bit stepped on by the heavy-handedness of all the malt. Don't get me wrong--I'm way more of a malthead than a hophead--but I think there needs to be enough other things going on to have this assert itself as a porter, and not just a malty brown ale.

I think I'm the only dissenting voice so far, but I'll acquiesce to the majority. Interested to see what specialty #3 will be, as that's going to dictate the nature of this beer.

What is your extract efficiency? I'm around 70% and getting 1.060
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 01, 2014, 09:02:42 PM
I'm calculating at 80% efficiency for a 5 gallon batch; I fly sparge my 5 gallon batches. This is why we'll have to adjust in the end based on percentages rather than avoirdupois once the ratios are settled.

Are you calculating for a larger batch? Even if I set my efficiency to 70%, I'm still at 1.065.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 01, 2014, 09:05:52 PM
well this is interesting. with my software I get .070. 75%E. I think that this is all part of the group experience/ collaboration thing. we all do stuff a little differently. in the end  we may have to reduce some of the amounts a little to keep in style for robust porter.   
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 01, 2014, 09:08:17 PM
I should have mentioned I plan for 5.5 gallons, giving me 5 gallons in the keg.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 01, 2014, 09:15:09 PM
OK, that makes more sense.

For the purposes of designing this recipe, it might be a good idea for everyone to set the same batch size and efficiency (and maybe we should be sure to use the same malt profiles, etc.); when it comes time to implement the recipe, you can then scale appropriately to your system and efficiency. This is helpful because, especially when it comes to the hop schedule, if Hop Person 1 is looking at a 1.058 recipe and Hop Person 2 is looking at a 1.074 recipe, they are likely to make very different selections for hop variety, amount and time.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: brewfun on March 01, 2014, 09:33:00 PM
I just talk to my suppler of grains about M.O malt. he gets crisp and the D.P is 140 on that so no problems converting there.

Quick note: I think you were given a Kolbach number, which isn't the same as Lintner. To be fair, there are pro brewers that don't realize there's a difference. MOPA malt is only fair to good for diastatic content. Current malt analysis for Thomas Fawcett is 63 Lin. Bairds is 55 Lin. Crisp states a minimum of 50 Lin.  This is enough to handle up to 30% non diastatic malts, as long as pH of 5.2 to 5.4 is achieved. Longer conversions can be expected outside of that range.

Edit: Crisp Malt spec sheet attached.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 01, 2014, 09:56:03 PM
Maybe once we pick the grain bill, we should jump to the mash temp.
Since that would actually come before the hop additions.

And maybe before we pick the mash temp, we should decide what we as a group want for expected original gravity and Srm with the given malts.


Do we want to assume a 5 gallon batch size then? Then I can scale my recipe up to 5.5 if I want.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 02, 2014, 06:25:30 AM
I just talk to my suppler of grains about M.O malt. he gets crisp and the D.P is 140 on that so no problems converting there.

Quick note: I think you were given a Kolbach number, which isn't the same as Lintner. To be fair, there are pro brewers that don't realize there's a difference. MOPA malt is only fair to good for diastatic content. Current malt analysis for Thomas Fawcett is 63 Lin. Bairds is 55 Lin. Crisp states a minimum of 50 Lin.  This is enough to handle up to 30% non diastatic malts, as long as pH of 5.2 to 5.4 is achieved. Longer conversions can be expected outside of that range.

Edit: Crisp Malt spec sheet attached.
yes, I was not sure what kolbach  and lin was nor do I yet. but I'm going to brush up on the terms. when I looked at the crisp spec I did not know what it all stood for. oh well that's why were here. thanks
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 02, 2014, 11:16:04 AM
My main goal when I came up with this idea was to help both new and experienced brewers learn.  It appears we're learning.

As for the batch size, I think most of us aim for 5.5 gallons into the fermentor.  Thus, I suggest we set 5.5 gallons for the batch size.

I think having a target OG and SRM is also a good idea.  As for what those targets should be, I don't have an opinion on that. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 02, 2014, 12:25:58 PM
Do we all agree with what we have so far?
5.5 gallons
I propose we all estimate 65% extraction efficiency because that's what Brew Your Own uses for all of their recipes and im sure there are plenty of us that subscribe to the magazine.

So far we have
Maris otter
Pale Chocolate
German Munich malts
We good?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 02, 2014, 12:57:04 PM
I think we're good so far.  We'll give it a little more time before we move on to the third grain.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 02, 2014, 02:18:58 PM
I'm good so far,
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Roadrocket on March 02, 2014, 04:48:47 PM
I'm good so far but I'm thinking we might need to add two more grains to get a robust porter. We'll see.

I'm brewing a simple blonde ale tomorrow using Belgian Pilsner malt, a touch of carapils and some willamette. I need to take my mind off the suspense.

I've filled my HLT and I'm finishing a good shot of Laphroaig before I go to bed.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on March 03, 2014, 07:36:56 AM
+1 on the Munich

As far as the recipe goes, we can create a baseline equipment profile that everyone can use to "build" the recipe.  From there, once everything is plugged in (grains, hops, yeast) we will be able to see the SRM, OG, IBU, and most importantly the percentages of each grain.  All this will allow for ease of scaling to your particular setup.

Since I'm throwing out the idea of a "baseline" equipment profile...here are some suggestions:

Brewhouse Efficiency: 70%
Loss to Trub and Chiller: 0.5 gal
Batch Volume: 5.5 gal
Fermenter Loss: 0.5 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Calculate Boil Vol Auto: Checked

The other values ( Mash/Lauter Tun, Boil off, etc) you can plug in from your own experience.

Thoughts?

-Dan

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 03, 2014, 08:58:39 AM
Time to move on.  I did take the suggestion to move the Mash Profile up in the order.

About possibly adding other grains, we'll debate that after we lock in Brewmex41's grain selection.

Here is where we're at:

DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                              Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.
Grathan                            Mash Profile.
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection.

Brewmex41:  You're up!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 03, 2014, 01:04:20 PM
I had a hard time deciding between Carastan, British crystal 60 and brown malt, but i think two pounds of brown malt should give us the color and depth of an English porter.
10lb Maris Otter
2lb Brown Malt
1.5 lb Munich
1 lb pale chocolate malt

Right now im getting this on my recipe app:
1.068 OG
26.4 Srm
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 03, 2014, 01:11:17 PM
YES! I'm digging it. This is a very British-y porter, as it's shaping up from the grain bill, and I think the brown malt will go a long way to add a warm, roasty undercurrent to the rather beefy malt backdrop provided by the MO and the Munich. I certainly didn't think we'd need additional sweetness or mouthfeel added by crystal/caramel specialties, so I'm fully in favor of this choice.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: grathan on March 03, 2014, 02:52:28 PM
156*F /69*C

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 03, 2014, 03:11:13 PM
156 is the highest I have mashed at in the past and I ended up with a beer that tasted like Scottish ale. not that's that is a bad thing just not what I was looking for. since this is my 1st porter I can not say more then 156 is good for me. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 03, 2014, 03:14:38 PM
156*F /69*C

Would you share why you decided on this temp?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 03, 2014, 03:19:33 PM
We're moving right along.

Here is where we're at:

DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                               Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.                        Chose 2 lbs. of Brown Malt
Grathan                            Mash Profile.                                                          Chose Mash Temp of 156F/69C for a full body beer
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection.

I love Grathan's choice of Mash Temp!  A lot!!  I love my Porters to be sweeter and with this mash temp we should have some residual unfermentables to add a sweet touch that goes well with the grain bill and keeps it very much an English Style Robust Porter.

Let's pause for a moment and get comments on this.

For example:
   We are over the target OG for the style about .002 to .004 points.  With my equipment, I'd have an estimated OG of 1.067. 
              Is everybody ok with this?
   I'm showing an SRM of 26.9.  This is just a tad below the middle of the styles range.  Is everybody ok with this.
   Any comments on the quantities in the grain bill, now that we have all four selected?
   Any comments on if we need any additional grains?
   Does anybody think we could substitute a different grain than what has been selected?


We won't move on to the hopping until we have a consensus on the grain bill.

We're open for comments on everything up to this point in time.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 03, 2014, 03:27:07 PM
I think whoever though to add brown malt is a genius ;) We should elect him our leader.

I am liking the grain bill and I have never mashed that high before. This is all uncharted territory for me and I'm pretty excited for this one.

Scott, You will end up brewing this one, wont you? If you do, maybe I will brew some sort of variation and we can exchange a couple bottles. Like maybe I'll use a baltic lager yeast or something, or use exclusively German Malts to really see the differences all these ingredients make.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 03, 2014, 03:32:44 PM
I just made a clone of Brews Brothers Porter.  I got the recipe from the head brewer at the Brews Brothers Microbrewery at the Silver Legacy Casino in Reno, Nevada.  He suggested I mash at 156F.  So I did.  It turned out fantastic!  Some residual sweetness, which I really like in an English Porter. 

My measured OG was 1.065 with a grain bill almost identical to this one.  The only difference was that I had some crystal malts (20L and 120L) in small amounts.  My grain bill was 14.5 lbs. total.  We're at the same 14.5 lbs. with ours.  I only had 1 pound of Brown Malt in mine.  In place of the 1 pound of Brown Malt that my recipe didn't have compared to this one, I had 12 oz. of the 120L Crystal and 4 oz. of the 20L Crystal.

I'm freakin' amazed out how close this recipe has turned out grain-wise to the one I just brewed.  Unbelievable!!  You can see my Brews Brothers Porter Recipe in the recipe threads.  I called mine a Baltic Porter, just because it fit the guidelines for Color, OG, Bitterness and ABV of a Baltic Porter.  Maybe when I enter it into competitions, I'd be better off entering it as a Robust Porter.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 03, 2014, 03:36:42 PM
I think whoever though to add brown malt is a genius ;) We should elect him our leader.

I am liking the grain bill and I have never mashed that high before. This is all uncharted territory for me and I'm pretty excited for this one.

Scott, You will end up brewing this one, wont you? If you do, maybe I will brew some sort of variation and we can exchange a couple bottles. Like maybe I'll use a baltic lager yeast or something, or use exclusively German Malts to really see the differences all these ingredients make.

Since we only live a few miles apart, it would be very beneficial if we brewed them side by side, as close to the same as we can.  We'll get a great comparison of our two brews to give feedback to the group.  I suggest that you and I should use the same yeast.  Actually, I think that we should have me make a huge starter of the yeast (large enough to pitch both batches!), so that the yeast starting conditions are as identical as possible.

It will be a great beer for our club meetings when we get to our Malt Forward tasting night.  We'll get great feedback from about 20 homebrewers on the two beers tasted side by side.  We could even do it as a blind tasting, so that they don't know which one is which.  We might not want to tell them that they recipes were identical.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 03, 2014, 03:41:59 PM
This is true. Maybe I can come over on a saturday once this bad boy is hashed out and We can do it same day. Only tough thing would be keeping ferm temps the same and hoping mine doesnt slosh too much on the drive home.

I had a baltic porter the other day, and I really liked it. From Poland. It was similar to a German dopplebock, just with more chocolatey porter like flavors.

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 03, 2014, 03:45:32 PM
You could leave your fermentor here and let them ferment side by side.  I can keep the temps under control and pretty much identical.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 03, 2014, 03:47:11 PM
are we using 65% or 70% efficiency
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 03, 2014, 03:48:25 PM
I have mine set at 70%.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 03, 2014, 04:00:04 PM
my #s all look good. I'm going to the lbs on Thursday to get everything I need. I'm in Minnesota and the temps have been below 0 at night for to long, like two weeks. Thursday it is said that it will be 28 and that's a sign from the brew gods to brew.
 pretty sure we will be done and ready by then? 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 03, 2014, 07:09:09 PM
I'm looking at 1.077 OG/25.2 SRM as it stands right now, brewing 5.5G on my system. I don't have qualms about that necessarily, but it just feels a little out-of-bounds. I'll scale down to get a little more in line with the rest of you, but it might be worth toning down the grist a little bit. I'm of the opinion that it should be a little darker, but it's within style as it is. Maybe I'll just drink it in the dark, or with my eyes closed... or maybe I'll just toss in a small handful of black malt :)

I do like the mash temp choice, however; I think that will nicely round out the maltiness of the beer. That will make my yeast choice a bit more challenging!

Any thoughts on the above concerns? I'm not going to fight it too hard, but thought I'd throw it for discussion. I think we should lock down this part of the recipe with every participant's stated or unstated (by means of no comment) approval before setting the hop dogs loose.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 03, 2014, 07:23:12 PM
I'm looking at 1.077 OG/25.2 SRM as it stands right now, brewing 5.5G on my system. I don't have qualms about that necessarily, but it just feels a little out-of-bounds. I'll scale down to get a little more in line with the rest of you, but it might be worth toning down the grist a little bit. I'm of the opinion that it should be a little darker, but it's within style as it is. Maybe I'll just drink it in the dark, or with my eyes closed... or maybe I'll just toss in a small handful of black malt :)

I do like the mash temp choice, however; I think that will nicely round out the maltiness of the beer. That will make my yeast choice a bit more challenging!

Any thoughts on the above concerns? I'm not going to fight it too hard, but thought I'd throw it for discussion. I think we should lock down this part of the recipe with every participant's stated or unstated (by means of no comment) approval before setting the hop dogs loose.

What is your efficiency set at?  If it's higher than 70%, maybe that explains it.  With your system, you might have to dial back the grain quantities slightly to get it to where the rest of us are at.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 03, 2014, 07:30:49 PM
Yeah, I'm at 80%. I'll definitely scale down, but even then, we're still north of the style guidelines. Don't get me wrong--I don't care so much about being in, out, or upside-down of the guidelines, 'cuz it's beer one way or another--but if that was part of the recipe designing exercise, it would be good to dial down the measurements a bit. Scaling down does have other tangible effects, such as lightening the beer color a few degrees. I can boost those darker malts back up a bit, but since they are very flavorful additions as well, that will start fundamentally changing the beer.

So again--not a big deal--but I thought I'd toss it out there to chew on.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 03, 2014, 07:52:56 PM
I dont mind that its not to style, however, I'm not opposed to steeping 3oz of unmilled black patent or midnight wheat malt for color only.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 03, 2014, 09:39:14 PM
Keep tossing those ideas back and forth.  I'm learning more with each post. I for one, like the OG where it is.  It's not like anybody will know that drinks your beer that it was 2 points high on the style.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 04, 2014, 07:48:00 AM
I myself am thinking of adding 3 oz to the chocolate to get it a little darker. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 04, 2014, 08:22:07 AM
I think I'd tweak the color a bit, too, but I don't want to alter the flavor profile too much, as I'm tasting it in my dragon brain and it's delicious already. What I would likely do is cold steep a few ounces of coarsely crushed black malt in my French press overnight, and then add the squeezings directly to the kettle. It'll add sort of an arbitrary amount of coloration, but it'll darken things up a touch with minimal flavor impact.

But I'll go either way--as it is or with minor tweaks. I'll shoot for 1.068. I'm good to go.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on March 04, 2014, 08:46:52 AM
I'm at 1.068 and 30srm and good with the malt bill, we all ready for the hops?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 04, 2014, 08:54:32 AM
How are you getting 30 SRM? Are you using pale chocolate (~200L) or chocolate (~450L) for your calculations?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on March 04, 2014, 09:41:07 AM
I'm getting 26.1 SRM using Pale Chocolate (Fawcett) at 215L (the range is 180 - 250L, so I picked a number in the middle).
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Roadrocket on March 04, 2014, 11:38:05 AM
I'm OK with it so far. The brown malt sounds good and the high mash temperature should be interesting. My guess is that it'll be dryer than my usual porter recipe but that's no bad thing. I've never done a porter with no crystal before.

I'm guessing the choice of yeast will be significant to the flavour. The attenuation will make a big difference to the degree of sweetness.

I couldn't give a damn if my beers are in style as long as they taste good. People were brewing 10,000 years before styles were invented and they only serve to make beer less interesting in my opinion. Nobody has any idea what porter tasted like 100 years ago. It wouldn't fit into a modern style but that doesn't mean it wasn't a porter. We do know that it was soured in huge open vats so if we tried some nowadays we'd probably spit it out.

It's all good so far and it's obvious that everybody has put a lot of thought into it. Carry on.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 04, 2014, 12:03:04 PM
+1 to roadrocket. and all is ok for me.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on March 04, 2014, 01:21:59 PM
Are we ready to move on to the first hop addition?

Running Total
Robust Porter
10 lb Maris Otter Malt
1 lb Pale Chocolate Malt ~200L
1.5 lb German Munich Malt 9L
Mash @ 156*F /69*C Full Bodied

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 04, 2014, 01:27:14 PM
Are we ready to move on to the first hop addition?

Running Total
Robust Porter
10 lb Maris Otter Malt
1 lb Pale Chocolate Malt ~200L
1.5 lb German Munich Malt 9L
Mash @ 156*F /69*C Full Bodied

Yes
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 04, 2014, 01:53:00 PM
Here is where we're at:

DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                               Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.                        Chose 2 lbs. of Brown Malt
Grathan                            Mash Profile.                                                          Chose Mash Temp of 156F/69C for a full body beer
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection.


Sir Chef WinnepegFats:  You're up!  what is your first hop variety, quantity and time to be added. 

Just so you know, your hop doesn't have to be the early bittering hop if you don't want it to be.  You may choose the hop addition that you most want to be a part of the recipe.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on March 04, 2014, 02:31:38 PM
How are you getting 30 SRM? Are you using pale chocolate (~200L) or chocolate (~450L) for your calculations?

didn't have a 200 chocolate malt in BS, so i was using the 350#  but I just changed it to 200 so my srm # is now 24.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on March 04, 2014, 03:10:34 PM
I would be curious if we are about to set the record for the longest thread on the forum!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 05, 2014, 06:07:19 AM
I am ready for the hop additions! Very excited to see how this goes!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: OzarkBrewer on March 05, 2014, 07:08:32 AM
Not part of the collaboration but following along in the shadows and really really like this idea!  I will be brewing this along with you all.  Bought my malt/grain bill yesterday for $27 US.  Seems like a lot for a 5.5 G batch but what do I know.  this will only be my second all grain batch.

I'm off Friday and the temp. here will be very nice for brewing so I'm hoping to brew this Friday. Hope to hear the remainder of the recipe soon so hope you all "hop" to it!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 05, 2014, 09:24:43 AM
ha ha" hop to it". that's a funny one. heres an other one,"may the Easter bunny  bring us some hops"  all joking aside I was just wondering if there is going to be a water profile for this or not. I bring it up now because it may speed things up or at least smooth things along, for some. I my self have vary hard water and to get the mash P.H down on light colored beer I have to use 50% R.O. for my mash efficiency and conversion to be good. now with this dark grain I 'm in new territory. I did a projection of my cost for this beer and it's heading north of 30$ so I myself need to have a good mash if I don't want to  run out of good beer. My mash efficiency used to be 55% before I changed my mash water, now i'm around 70% but I was using pills and 2row in most beers so any advice on good mashing and water would be welcome for this porter. thanks. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 05, 2014, 10:29:04 AM
ha ha" hop to it". that's a funny one. heres an other one,"may the Easter bunny  bring us some hops"  all joking aside I was just wondering if there is going to be a water profile for this or not. I bring it up now because it may speed things up or at least smooth things along, for some. I my self have vary hard water and to get the mash P.H down on light colored beer I have to use 50% R.O. for my mash efficiency and conversion to be good. now with this dark grain I 'm in new territory. I did a projection of my cost for this beer and it's heading north of 30$ so I myself need to have a good mash if I don't want to  run out of good beer. My mash efficiency used to be 55% before I changed my mash water, now i'm around 70% but I was using pills and 2row in most beers so any advice on good mashing and water would be welcome for this porter. thanks.

A "London" water profile would be "too style".
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 05, 2014, 10:41:19 AM
I'm using "Il Taperino" as my water profile.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Roadrocket on March 05, 2014, 03:31:07 PM
I'm using "Il Taperino" as my water profile.

Ha ha, it took me ages to work that out, I must be getting slow.

I'll be doing the same. My tap water comes from the same source as London and it's very nearly identical. I find it good for dark beers but I do treat it for for light beers.

My grain cost will come to about ÂŁ15 ($22) but I'll have enough of the three specialty grains left over to make another batch.

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 05, 2014, 03:48:39 PM
Winnepeg!  You're Turn!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 06, 2014, 03:53:34 AM
So does the person that picks the yeast pick the fermentation temperature as well?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 06, 2014, 10:45:16 AM
So does the person that picks the yeast pick the fermentation temperature as well?

Yes
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 06, 2014, 10:54:59 AM
I sent a message to Winnepeg Fats.  I hope we'll hear from him soon.

He has been active as recently as two days ago, but he hasn't replied in this thread since volunteering way back in the beginning.

We'll see what happens.  We do have one person on the waiting list, if he drops out.  I hope he doesn't though.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: WinnipegFats on March 06, 2014, 12:11:32 PM
sorry been busy......i'll sort through the thread to find the recipe....give ma a bit
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 06, 2014, 12:17:21 PM
Here's the current totals: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea. (http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,10061.msg42633.html#msg42633)
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: WinnipegFats on March 06, 2014, 12:18:29 PM
it just so happens i made a crazy porter recently. Chocolate raspberry oatmeal milk porter. will have to wait to make it again because i used homegrown raspberries. but anyway i lkiked my hop profile so i will start with 10 g of magnum.....we could go with an ounce if you would like. it gave a good base flavour for mine so we'll go with 1 oz magnum
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 06, 2014, 12:29:21 PM
it just so happens i made a crazy porter recently. Chocolate raspberry oatmeal milk porter. will have to wait to make it again because i used homegrown raspberries. but anyway i lkiked my hop profile so i will start with 10 g of magnum.....we could go with an ounce if you would like. it gave a good base flavour for mine so we'll go with 1 oz magnum

Here is where we're at:

DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                               Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.                        Chose 2 lbs. of Brown Malt
Grathan                            Mash Profile.                                                          Chose Mash Temp of 156F/69C for a full body beer
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.              Chose 1 ounce of Magnum (bittering at 60 minutes)
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection.


I've made the assumption that your choice is the 60 minute bittering addition.

I just put the Magnum into my recipe and it put the IBU's at 48.6, assuming AA of 14%.  I think we might have to cut that back a little bit to make room for the other hops.  If I go with the 13.7% Magnum that is currently at my lhbs, it's still at 47.6 IBU's.

.75 ounces might be a little better, giving some room for other hop additions.  This would drop the IBU's down to the middle of the style range at 35.7 IBU's and give room for other hop additions.

As far as selecting Magnum, it's a german variety that would probably have been available in England.  I'm ok with it, although, a UK hop might be more appropriate to the style and to where the recipe was heading.  I'm not saying that we need to stay with UK hops, as I use Centennial hops in my UK style robust porters, so I don't follow the style guidelines all that close sometimes when it comes to ingredients.  I brew what I like and I like Magnum and Centennial.  I tend to use Centennial hops in my porters and Magnum and/or Centennial in my huge Russian Imperial Stouts.

One thing I've noticed about Magnum is that I think it tends to blend well with chocolate flavors.  With the chocolate malt we have in our grain bill, it may be a great hop choice to blend well with the chocolate flavors that we'll have.

I guess what I'm saying is, although I wouldn't have selected it myself, I like Magnum hops!  In this recipe, I'm definitely ok with Magnum.  We'll see what others think about it.

Time for your thoughts, comments and suggestions on this hop selection.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: WinnipegFats on March 06, 2014, 12:43:24 PM
oops one ounce is a bit much....sorry my mental conversions are off it should be half an ounce...been shoveling snow and drinking beer all day. and i do agree with the choise of magnum because of the chocolate. as i said it blended well with the chocolate porter i just made
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 06, 2014, 12:54:55 PM
Rats--and I just used up all my on-hand Magnum in an AIPA, cleverly titled "Magnum, PA." <rimshot>

I guess I'm OK with it, especially if it gets knocked down to 0.5 oz. Probably would have been way down the list if it were up to me, but I can get on board with it. I'm probably going to go a different route with the yeast I had in mind, depending on where we wind up with IBUs.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 06, 2014, 01:43:49 PM
Are we going with the imported German Magnum or Domestic US magnum?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on March 06, 2014, 01:55:24 PM
I recently used Northern Brewer as my bittering hops in a porter, which is more of a "traditional" English hop (along with East Kent Goldings) that you would see in a porter.  I've never tried using Magnum in a porter...but I'm game to try it if that is what the consensus of the group is.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 06, 2014, 02:41:29 PM
We should remember to post the %AA of the hops you're using. I ordered a half pound of Magnum from Yakima Valley Hops and they only registered as 12.2% AA whereas the Whole Leaf Magnum at Bader (my lhbs) clock in at 16.75%AA
I was a little disappointed, since thats one of the appeals for me is the high %AA, but oh well, It was only $8 for the 8 oz.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 06, 2014, 02:46:53 PM
Or we can just go by IBUs and adjust amounts in our own implementations...
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 06, 2014, 03:52:10 PM
Let's keep this as "per ounce of hops" in the recipe, with the AA% of the hop stated.  That way, when all is said and done, each person can adjust each of there hop addition amounts to hit identical IBU's.

I have this now at .5 ounces of Magnum hops at 13.7 IBU's for the official recipe.  Once you get your hops to make it, you'll have to adjust the quantity to hit the 23.8 IBU's that this calculates out to.

Here is where we're at:

DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                               Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.                        Chose 2 lbs. of Brown Malt
Grathan                            Mash Profile.                                                          Chose Mash Temp of 156F/69C for a full body beer
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.              Chose .5 ounce of Magnum (60 minutes)(13.7 AA,23.8 IBU)
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection.


Billy Brew...You're up!  What is your hop addition please?

By the way, the style range is 25 to 50 IBU's.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on March 06, 2014, 04:23:06 PM
I"m very much a newbie here and I must admit I've never made a porter, and I was thinking that we were going toward a traditional English style porter so I was gearing up for my contribution along those lines. Had maybe Target/Challenger hops for the bittering addition, so going to have to rethink my hop addition.

That said I like using magnum hops and I'm familiar with them, and I WAS thinking EKG for my contribution so maybe that's still a possibility.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Roadrocket on March 07, 2014, 03:41:59 PM
+1 on bucknut

I've never used Magnum but I understand they give a very clean bitterness. They should let the flavour of the next two hop additions come through. EKG or Challenger will be very good. Willamette will also be excellent. I don't think citrusy hops will work in a porter but I might be wrong.  We'll get plenty of aroma from the malt but a bit of fruit and spice will be good.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 07, 2014, 04:09:31 PM
just to let everyone know, of all my weaknesses picking the right hops for a beer is on the top of the list so I'm going to sit back and learn a little during the hop selections and what ever is picked it'll be alright with me.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 07, 2014, 04:20:48 PM
I just sent a message to Billy Brew, letting him know that he's up.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: BILLY BREW on March 08, 2014, 05:42:58 AM
Mornin you mad scientist drunks!

2nd hops 1/2oz Willemette @5.5-6A
15 minute.

Looking forward to this...Just got room enough for a couple more cases in my brew dungeon.

Used it in my last porter and it came out OUTSTANDING!

I might take liberties and make 2 batches, and add some "Jim Beam Honey" to it.

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 08, 2014, 02:06:44 PM
I like the Willamete selection.  I don't love it.  I probably would have thought a Fuggles or EK Goldings would be more appropriate, but it is similar enough to those that I don't have a problem with it.

It only upped the IBU's 4.7 to 5.2.  Not much of a jump.  It's the same hop that Sierra Nevada uses in their porter.  I think we could double the amount though.  I think an ounce would add more IBU's and allow the Willamette flavor to have more of a chance at coming through.  At 15 minutes, we might lose a little bit of the flavor, but it's late enough to allow some of the mild, grassy, floral, spiciness of Willamete to come through.  Willamette is a hop used in British Ales, so it does fit the style.  It's similar to Fuggles or EK Goldings, which are definitely UK hops.

I was expecting the second and third hop selections to add more IBU's.  If they don't, that is ok, we always increase the Magnum, or increase the second and third, depending on the profiles of the three hops and what we want out of them.

Here is where we're at:

DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                               Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.                        Chose 2 lbs. of Brown Malt
Grathan                            Mash Profile.                                                          Chose Mash Temp of 156F/69C for a full body beer
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.              Chose .5 ounce of Magnum (60 minutes)(13.7 AA,23.8 IBU)
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.          Chose .5 ounce of Willamette (15 minutes)(5.5 AA,4.7 IBU)
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection.


Any other thoughts, comments or suggestions?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on March 08, 2014, 05:28:39 PM
I'm ok with the Willamette, it's not my first choice but only because I've never used it. I would suggest using at least an ounce though, we need to get that ibu # up or else it may be to sweet, for my taste anyway. I'm suggesting 1oz or more of Willamete so it gets this beer some more balance, you could use more of the Magnum but I think we need more flavor/aroma from this type of hop in the brew.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 08, 2014, 09:27:36 PM
So at 70% efficiency and 5.5 gallon batch size I'm getting 1.068 est OG and 19.7 Ibus from the 1/2 oz magnum (13.7% AA)

I agree on upping both hop additions depending on the third hop choice.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on March 08, 2014, 10:11:37 PM
So at 70% efficiency and 5.5 gallon batch size I'm getting 1.068 est OG and 19.7 Ibus from the 1/2 oz magnum (13.7% AA)

I agree on upping both hop additions depending on the third hop choice.

Right now I'm thinking EKG at 5min at least an ounce, I'm at work right now so I don't have excess to my recipe or BS software to give anyone solid ibu #'s. Will post them later when we settle on the amount's for 2nd hop addition.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 08, 2014, 10:51:15 PM
We'll await a few more replies on Billy Brews hops first, before moving on to the last hop.

I wouldn't worry too much though about the amounts and IBU's at this point.  Let's concentrate on the hop flavors and aromas that we want.  Then we can tweak the amounts of each to get the IBU's where we want them to be.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Roadrocket on March 09, 2014, 04:36:26 AM
Could the third choice be added before the second?

I was thinking that adding some flavour hops at say 20 or 30 minutes might work well. Any good traditional hop would be great and it would blend perfectly with the Willamette.

We've got plenty of clean bitterness from the Magnum. Some extra hop flavour might balance the roasted malt and add complexity.

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on March 09, 2014, 09:16:41 AM
I don't see why not. You can specify your hop selection and the time of the addition.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 09, 2014, 10:40:31 AM
Could the third choice be added before the second?

I was thinking that adding some flavour hops at say 20 or 30 minutes might work well. Any good traditional hop would be great and it would blend perfectly with the Willamette.

We've got plenty of clean bitterness from the Magnum. Some extra hop flavour might balance the roasted malt and add complexity.

Of course it can. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 09, 2014, 12:04:56 PM
Time for the last hop addition.

Here is where we're at:

DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                               Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.                        Chose 2 lbs. of Brown Malt
Grathan                            Mash Profile.                                                          Chose Mash Temp of 156F/69C for a full body beer
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.              Chose .5 ounce of Magnum (60 minutes)(13.7 AA,23.8 IBU)
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.          Chose 1 ounce of Willamette (15 minutes)(6 AA,10.3 IBU)
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection


Based on the comments, etc., I changed the Willamette to 1 ounce of 6% AA at 15 minutes for an IBU contribution of 10.3 IBU's.

The style guidelines are 25-50 IBU's.  Because are OG is at about 1.067 and slightly above the style guidelines, we probably need to get the IBU's of this recipe up close to the 50 IBU range.  We're currently at 34.1 IBU's.

Bucknet, you're up!
What is your third hop variety (it can be the same hop variety as a previous selection)?  What is the AA% of your hop variety and what is the addition time?  We look forward to your selection!!  Don't worry if you don't get the IBU's up to about 50, as we can adjust the other hops, or even make changes per group suggestions (such as adding a fourth hop, or backing down the OG).  What we're looking for is the flavor and bitterness you'd like your hop selection to contribute.

We're getting close.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on March 09, 2014, 05:12:13 PM
I'm going with 1 oz EKG (5.00% AA) at 5 min.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 09, 2014, 05:30:32 PM
Here is where we're at:

DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                               Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.                        Chose 2 lbs. of Brown Malt
Grathan                            Mash Profile.                                                          Chose Mash Temp of 156F/69C for a full body beer
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.              Chose .5 ounce of Magnum (60 minutes)(13.7 AA,23.8 IBU)
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.          Chose 1 ounce of Willamette (15 minutes)(6 AA,10.3 IBU)
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.               Chose 1 ounce of East Kent Goldings (5 minutes)(5.7 AA,3.9 IBU)
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection


Bucknut's EKG's adds 3.9 IBU's for a total IBU count of 38.1.  We're well short of what I think we need for IBU's.  I think we need to get up close to 50.  We might need to increase our Magnum up front or add a 30 minute hop addition.

I put it in at 5.7% because that is the AA that most of the current EKG are that are currently available in the US.  We'll allow each person to adjust accordingly when they brew this.

By the way, I applaud the EKG's finishing hop!  It's perfect for an English Robust Porter.  In my opinion, the choice by bucknut to get a finishing hop in the recipe that will provide an aroma of floral, aromatic and earthiness, with a slightly sweet spicy flavor is fantastic!  He left the additional bittering to the group, which allows us to debate how to get the bitterness up to the appropriate level for the maltiness of the beer.

+1 to Bucknut!!


Comments, thoughts, suggestions?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 09, 2014, 05:42:35 PM
I'm for adding some hop at 60 or 45,or 30 to get the ibu's up. what kind is up to ya' all.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on March 09, 2014, 06:02:39 PM
What about one of these hops...

Perle (German) 6-8.5% - Moderately intense, good and hoppy, fruity and a little spicy
Nugget 11-14.5% - Quite heavy and herbal
Target (U.K.) 9.5-12.5% - Pleasant English hop aroma, quite intense

I'm intrigued by the Target hops, anyone here ever used them? 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 09, 2014, 06:20:47 PM
I've never used target.  .5 ounce at 20 minutes (AA% of 11) would get us an additional 11.6 IBU's and put us at 49.6 IBU total for the recipe.

I've attached what I have for my equipment, etc.  Please feel free to look it over and make comments.

No yeast yet.  Once we figure out the final version of the grains, hops, etc. then will have CMBrougham choose our yeast.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 09, 2014, 06:42:37 PM
I'll admit to not being entirely crazy about this hop schedule. With the amount of roasted grains, it makes almost no sense to bother with aroma/flavor hops--they'll be pretty much lost in the fray.

I think it's under-bittered, as well. As a matter of economy--and since we're already buying a full ounce of Magnum whether it's used or not (as that is the most common amount you can buy)--why not increase the Magnum addition to 1 oz. but move the addition until later in the boil. Following the rough values we've outlined, moving this addition to 30 minutes will give a total bitterness with all hop additions of about 48 IBUs (give or take a few depending on AA of hops you receive). I'm with Scott--we're going to need all of this to make this not taste like coffee-flavored syrup--and rather than pick a fourth hop to randomly throw in, let's stick with the three we've already selected. Another option is to use the other 0.5 oz later in the boil; Magnum has a pretty minimal flavor/aroma impact anyway, so I don't think it matters where it goes so long as it adds to the bitterness we'll need for balance.

Just my two bits...
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 09, 2014, 06:55:41 PM
I'll admit to not being entirely crazy about this hop schedule. With the amount of roasted grains, it makes almost no sense to bother with aroma/flavor hops--they'll be pretty much lost in the fray.

I think it's under-bittered, as well. As a matter of economy--and since we're already buying a full ounce of Magnum whether it's used or not (as that is the most common amount you can buy)--why not increase the Magnum addition to 1 oz. but move the addition until later in the boil. Following the rough values we've outlined, moving this addition to 30 minutes will give a total bitterness with all hop additions of about 48 IBUs (give or take a few depending on AA of hops you receive). I'm with Scott--we're going to need all of this to make this not taste like coffee-flavored syrup--and rather than pick a fourth hop to randomly throw in, let's stick with the three we've already selected. Another option is to use the other 0.5 oz later in the boil; Magnum has a pretty minimal flavor/aroma impact anyway, so I don't think it matters where it goes so long as it adds to the bitterness we'll need for balance.

Just my two bits...

Good points!  Agreed.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 09, 2014, 07:06:06 PM
Thanks, Scott. Another option--though I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense--would be to add more of one of the lower AA hops. For example if we increase the Willamette addition to 2 oz., we get to about 44-45 IBU, which is pretty decent. This might give this addition some chance of being noticed, too! It just means purchasing another ounce of hops, accommodating for additional absorption/loss, etc. After all, this is why high alpha hops have gained favor.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 09, 2014, 07:15:00 PM
I prefer you magnum idea.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on March 09, 2014, 07:17:05 PM
I prefer you magnum idea.

+1, it does make more since, I never did feel right about adding another type of hop.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 09, 2014, 07:23:37 PM
OK, I say we go with the Magnum full ounce addition at 30 minutes. This should make for "smooth bitterness" (which always seemed like one of those "jumbo shrimp" declarations), and we should also remember that the roasted malts will add their own bitter character. We've stayed on the lighter end of the darker malts, so it should be subtle and hopefully harmonize well with the botanically-induced bitterness.

I'll pretend for the moment that this is the plan and start considering yeasts. I had a thought but I think I'll change it slightly now. Do we want to have a go-round to do a final tweak of the malt and hop bill before moving on?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 09, 2014, 07:30:56 PM
OK, I say we go with the Magnum full ounce addition at 30 minutes. This should make for "smooth bitterness" (which always seemed like one of those "jumbo shrimp" declarations), and we should also remember that the roasted malts will add their own bitter character. We've stayed on the lighter end of the darker malts, so it should be subtle and hopefully harmonize well with the botanically-induced bitterness.

I'll pretend for the moment that this is the plan and start considering yeasts. I had a thought but I think I'll change it slightly now. Do we want to have a go-round to do a final tweak of the malt and hop bill before moving on?

I think you can select the yeast, as I don't see any other tweaks that would be significant.

Here is where we're at:

DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                               Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.                        Chose 2 lbs. of Brown Malt
Grathan                            Mash Profile.                                                          Chose Mash Temp of 156F/69C for a full body beer
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.              Chose 1 ounce of Magnum (30 minutes)(13.7 AA,36.6 IBU)
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.          Chose 1 ounce of Willamette (15 minutes)(6 AA,10.3 IBU)
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.               Chose 1 ounce of East Kent Goldings (5 minutes)(5.7 AA,3.9 IBU)
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection


CMBrougham.  You're up.  Please choose a yeast strain and please tell us the cell count that you think is needed.

For those that are following along.  Here is a yeast count calculator link that is very handy.

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

I've also attached an updated BeerSmith file of the current version.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 09, 2014, 08:16:33 PM
OK, here goes:

Given the OG of this porter and the full bodied mash, contrasting with the somewhat subdued hopping rate, my feeling is we need something relatively attenuative. However, it can't be too dry, lest the roastiness of the brown malt and chocolate malt become too overbearing.

We're going with mild amounts of flavor/aroma hops that should meld well with the roast and toast flavors, but will be relatively minor players, so other than lingering sweetness and maltiness, the party could get a little boring. As such, I think we need a yeast that's going to bring some interesting hors d'oeuvres by way of some fruity esters. These will hopefully peek out from behind the coffee and chocolate first string, enticing you to ask, "what's back there?"

With that, I'm selecting WLP023 Burton Ale Yeast from White Labs (http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp023-burton-ale-yeast?s=homebrew) or Thames Valley Ale 1275 from Wyeast (https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=138). If dry yeast is your thing, I think Nottingham would be your best bet; I like Safale S-04 but it's not the ticket here, and there is a Mangrove Jack's M79 Burton Ale, but I've not used it nor read really favorable things about it.

We could go with a drier, more attenuative strain like WLP007 Dry English, but I fear this would make the beer equivalent to drinking cold day-old coffee. Not a pleasant thought, as far as I'm concerned.

Thoughts? Comments? General ridicule?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 09, 2014, 11:20:05 PM

With that, I'm selecting WLP023 Burton Ale Yeast from White Labs (http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp023-burton-ale-yeast?s=homebrew) or Thames Valley Ale 1275 from Wyeast (https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=138).

Thoughts? Comments? General ridicule?

I actually like either one of these, but I'm leaning towards the WLP023 Burton Ale Yeast. 

I recently brewed a Porter with an almost identical grain bill.  My hopping rate was considerably lower though at 26.4 as the beer was more in line with a Baltic Porter.  I was after some residual sweetness.  I used Wyeast 1028 London Ale in it.  The attenuation of the 1028 was 75%.  We have enough bittering, that I think we need a less attenuative yeast strain.  The Burton Ale WLP023 has an attenuation of 72%, whereas the Thames Valley Ale 1275 from Wyeast has an attenuation of 77%.

My reasoning is that I think we want to have some residual sweetness and not dry it out too much, since we have the IBU's so high.  The WLP007 Dry English has an attenuation of 75%, which is the same as the Wyeast 1028 London Ale that I recently used in my Porter.

So, my vote is for the WLP023 Burton Ale Yeast.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Roadrocket on March 10, 2014, 11:03:40 AM
+2 on the WLP023 Burton Ale Yeast.

It's interesting to see the thought process. It's a great choice.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 10, 2014, 12:01:36 PM
hey guys what is the closest dry yeast to that? notty is what I 'm thinking. yes.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 10, 2014, 12:09:02 PM
Yes, I think Nottingham would be your closest dry yeast alternative.

When I listed both, it's because all the literature I read and the comparisons listed by those who have used both suggested these are the same, or at least very similar, strains. That's not based on anything other than hearsay, though. I recognize that some folks will only use one or the other of the major liquid yeast brands, so part of my decision was fueled by finding something similar from both providers that would give the necessary characteristics. Personally, if I do brew this, I'll probably use WLP023 as well, but I wanted to leave the option open.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on March 10, 2014, 12:18:07 PM
+1 on the WPL 023, although I can see using the 1275 as well (but I'll stick with the White's).  Great choice and this is going to be awesome beer and exercise!

-Dan
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on March 10, 2014, 03:11:36 PM
Not sure which I'll use yet, prob going with the 1275 or the notty.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 10, 2014, 04:21:07 PM
I've used the nottingham dry yeast.  I actually have some of it that I harvested.  It's a nice strain of yeast and I've always had good success with it.  I probably won't use it in this beer though.  I'll use the WLP023.  There are enough people using the WLP023, that I want to brew it identical to them.

Brewmex41 only lives a couple of miles from me and where going to probably brew this side by side at my house.  We'll just get one vial of the yeast and I'll make a huge starter on my stir plate so that we can split it.  We'll save $7 between us that way.

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 10, 2014, 04:25:55 PM
Here is the recipe.  Are we good to go with it as is?  Any last minute changes?


DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                               Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.                        Chose 2 lbs. of Brown Malt
Grathan                            Mash Profile.                                                          Chose Mash Temp of 156F/69C for a full body beer
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.              Chose 1 ounce of Magnum (30 minutes)(13.7 AA,36.6 IBU)
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.          Chose 1 ounce of Willamette (15 minutes)(6 AA,10.3 IBU)
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.               Chose 1 ounce of East Kent Goldings (5 minutes)(5.7 AA,3.9 IBU)
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection                                                        Chose White Labs Burton Ale Yeast (WLP023)     
                                               
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 10, 2014, 04:30:31 PM
Yaba daba doo ,Its ready to brew!
  Ok, I had to do that. ...all looks good to me, I really like the hops.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 10, 2014, 06:28:26 PM
I really like the hops.
Funny--what I like least is the hops. In fact, if I brew this (which is looking doubtful since I have some higher priority brews I want to make), I'll keep the grain bill but abandon the hop bill pretty much completely. The malts are something I'd probably pick if I were doing this on my own; the hops, not so much. This recipe is about 85% British--I don't see a reason not to make it 100% for my own personal consumption. I'm sure it'll make a tasty beverage as it stands, though.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 10, 2014, 07:03:47 PM
I really like the hops.
Funny--what I like least is the hops. In fact, if I brew this (which is looking doubtful since I have some higher priority brews I want to make), I'll keep the grain bill but abandon the hop bill pretty much completely. The malts are something I'd probably pick if I were doing this on my own; the hops, not so much. This recipe is about 85% British--I don't see a reason not to make it 100% for my own personal consumption. I'm sure it'll make a tasty beverage as it stands, though.
\

well I did say hops were my weakness. I should not say this but I will. i have been known to grab a few oz s of hops "the first ones I see"  and brew. now 31 batches latter i'm just now starting to get them right. at least in some of my brews.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 10, 2014, 07:18:29 PM
I certainly didn't mean that as a sleight to anyone. That's just part of this experiment, that we'll get almost a dozen different perspectives on a non-existent beer. I'm just stating that these are not choices I'd make, and while, "yeah, it's just beer," I've got my limits. I do believe this will make a perfectly delicious beer--maybe astronomically good--but it just doesn't feel right to me. If I'm investing 5 gallons worth of ingredients into something, then it should feel right.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 10, 2014, 07:19:58 PM
I really like the hops.
Funny--what I like least is the hops. In fact, if I brew this (which is looking doubtful since I have some higher priority brews I want to make), I'll keep the grain bill but abandon the hop bill pretty much completely. The malts are something I'd probably pick if I were doing this on my own; the hops, not so much. This recipe is about 85% British--I don't see a reason not to make it 100% for my own personal consumption. I'm sure it'll make a tasty beverage as it stands, though.

I know that I would have not hopped it this way, but that wasn't the point of this exercise.  The point was to let everyone in on each others thought processes.  I brewed a similar grain bill and went with all Centennial Hops.  However, I wasn't trying for an English Porter, I was aiming for an American Porter.

If I were aiming for an English Porter and designing on my own, I probably would have went with Target (Magnum is a German hop) for the 30 minute bittering, Fuggles for the 15 minute (Willamette is a US hop) and EKG at 5 minutes.  I might have also kept the IBU's at about 35 or 40 to keep more sweetness and less bitter in the flavor profile.  But that is what I would have done.  This exercise allowed me to see recipe design from the perspective of other brewers.  Basically to get inside their heads and see what their thoughts about their choices were. 

I was actually expecting people to choose UK hops, since the grain bill is so British in it's make up.

The great thing about brewing beer and designing recipes, is that there really aren't any rules.  I had a British grain bill for a Porter and didn't go British with my hops, so who was I to step in and say, "Why aren't we staying with the British Style?".

I had my choice on a grain and I was allowed to express my opinion on the other choices.  I gave and took, so that I could learn from all of you and hopefully you might have learned something from me as well.

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 10, 2014, 07:21:28 PM
I certainly didn't mean that as a sleight to anyone. That's just part of this experiment, that we'll get almost a dozen different perspectives on a non-existent beer. I'm just stating that these are not choices I'd make, and while, "yeah, it's just beer," I've got my limits. I do believe this will make a perfectly delicious beer--maybe astronomically good--but it just doesn't feel right to me. If I'm investing 5 gallons worth of ingredients into something, then it should feel right.

If one of us wins a "Best of Show" with it 6 months from now, you'll probably brew it then.   ;D
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 10, 2014, 07:26:44 PM
I've added a poll to find out how many will be brewing this, etc.  It will give us anonymous feedback as to what everyone really thinks.

Please vote.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: cmbrougham on March 10, 2014, 07:28:38 PM
Absolutely. It's a very interesting experiment from the design phase, and I think that's what this was all about. I just feel that it's going to make for a less interesting beer, and that's my opinion and my opinion alone. I did enjoy the back and forth, give and take of the process, but I don't really see a reason (for me) to make it a physical thing. As I'd stated in my earlier concerns, if one isn't going to brew this the way it was designed, I don't think there's much point in brewing it all. That applies to me, as well. I can't offer meaningful and constructive discussion if I don't.

And, I'll admit freely to being tired of big, dark beers. Had enough of this winter and I'm moving on to lighter fare :)
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: bucknut on March 11, 2014, 01:50:09 AM
I really like the hops.
Funny--what I like least is the hops. In fact, if I brew this (which is looking doubtful since I have some higher priority brews I want to make), I'll keep the grain bill but abandon the hop bill pretty much completely. The malts are something I'd probably pick if I were doing this on my own; the hops, not so much. This recipe is about 85% British--I don't see a reason not to make it 100% for my own personal consumption. I'm sure it'll make a tasty beverage as it stands, though.

I know that I would have not hopped it this way, but that wasn't the point of this exercise.  The point was to let everyone in on each others thought processes.  I brewed a similar grain bill and went with all Centennial Hops.  However, I wasn't trying for an English Porter, I was aiming for an American Porter.

If I were aiming for an English Porter and designing on my own, I probably would have went with Target (Magnum is a German hop) for the 30 minute bittering, Fuggles for the 15 minute (Willamette is a US hop) and EKG at 5 minutes.  I might have also kept the IBU's at about 35 or 40 to keep more sweetness and less bitter in the flavor profile.  But that is what I would have done.  This exercise allowed me to see recipe design from the perspective of other brewers.  Basically to get inside their heads and see what their thoughts about their choices were. 

I was actually expecting people to choose UK hops, since the grain bill is so British in it's make up.

The great thing about brewing beer and designing recipes, is that there really aren't any rules.  I had a British grain bill for a Porter and didn't go British with my hops, so who was I to step in and say, "Why aren't we staying with the British Style?".

I had my choice on a grain and I was allowed to express my opinion on the other choices.  I gave and took, so that I could learn from all of you and hopefully you might have learned something from me as well.


Thanks Scott for putting this together, I enjoyed and learned a few things like…..Baltic porters are usually made with lager yeast,  and the difference between the Kolbach number and the Lintner number when it comes to measuring a malts diastatic power.

I think I’m going to brew this, but just do a 1 gal version of the recipe and see how I like it, then maybe make any changes if needed and then brew a bigger batch.
Cheers,
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 11, 2014, 02:43:16 AM
I've used the nottingham dry yeast.  I actually have some of it that I harvested.  It's a nice strain of yeast and I've always had good success with it.  I probably won't use it in this beer though.  I'll use the WLP023.  There are enough people using the WLP023, that I want to brew it identical to them.

Brewmex41 only lives a couple of miles from me and where going to probably brew this side by side at my house.  We'll just get one vial of the yeast and I'll make a huge starter on my stir plate so that we can split it.  We'll save $7 between us that way.

Do you have any idea when youll brew this? I have my 6g carboys planned out for the next 3-4 months. I'm doing an India red ale this weekend and hopefully a bock lager the weekend after. Then ill brew a dopplebock straight on the bock yeast cake to avoid needing a massive starter.

I can scale it down to three gallons, tho. That carboy can be freed up.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 11, 2014, 03:00:52 AM
I'm not sure.  I need to free up a fermenter myself.  Let's keep in touch.  What day of the week best fits your schedule?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on March 11, 2014, 03:14:32 AM
I work monday thru Friday 230pm-1am so it would have to be sat or Sunday for me. The next two weekends are pretty packed for me, since my wife just started a new job and has weekend ordeals to attend. Let me know your schedule and i may be able to bring another buddy. He and i just brewed Pliny the Elder. Cost him $80 for a 5.5g all grain batch of the stuff! Almost 250 theoretical ibus.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Roadrocket on March 11, 2014, 02:32:08 PM
Scott, thanks for setting this up, it's been interesting and I've learned a few things. I will brew this in a few weeks once I've freed up a fermentor and a keg.

I agree with cmbrougham in that it doesn't feel right, however, I've brewed a few beers that feel right but taste wrong so maybe this will taste great.

Once you've all brewed it let us know what it turns out like.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on March 11, 2014, 04:44:10 PM
well all and all I would say it has been fun. thanks to scott and all for this experience. I myself well brew this later this week and then make some changes to it and use the yeast cake for round two. I'm thinking more chocolate and some vanilla. we well see.   
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: grathan on March 11, 2014, 05:07:37 PM
This might seem like a dumb question, but how does one add a downloaded .bsmx file to the My Recipes folder?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: OzarkBrewer on March 11, 2014, 05:31:12 PM
This might seem like a dumb question, but how does one add a downloaded .bsmx file to the My Recipes folder?

Not dumb...i have the same question.  I'm brewing this s.o.b. this friday night!  I've located all the ingredients except the called out yeast.  I have purchased the grains and will purchase everything else tomorrow or Thur.  Hope I can find the called for yeast, if not....Nautingham I believe was mentioned??
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: brewfun on March 11, 2014, 05:36:11 PM
This might seem like a dumb question, but how does one add a downloaded .bsmx file to the My Recipes folder?

Click the file to download and open in BeerSmith. Highlight the recipe, then cut/copy and paste it into the recipe folder you desire.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: drb1215 on March 12, 2014, 09:15:50 AM
Thanks Scott for putting this together, and keeping it together throughout the process! (Do you do event planning on the side?)

I'll schedule this in and see if I can brew it per the group recipe in the next couple of weeks...

-Dan
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 12, 2014, 04:47:54 PM
Scott, thanks for setting this up, it's been interesting and I've learned a few things. I will brew this in a few weeks once I've freed up a fermentor and a keg.

I agree with cmbrougham in that it doesn't feel right, however, I've brewed a few beers that feel right but taste wrong so maybe this will taste great.

Once you've all brewed it let us know what it turns out like.

You're welcome...
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 12, 2014, 04:50:21 PM
Allgrain and Bucknut...you're also very welcome...
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: BILLY BREW on March 26, 2014, 05:59:53 AM
sorry to have jumped in late...been brewing and not foruming lately.
What is the final recipe? If I can get all the ingredients, I will put it together and take it to my club meeting when I am done. There are some good tasters there, so I can report "man off the street" reactions.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 26, 2014, 03:10:49 PM
sorry to have jumped in late...been brewing and not foruming lately.
What is the final recipe? If I can get all the ingredients, I will put it together and take it to my club meeting when I am done. There are some good tasters there, so I can report "man off the street" reactions.

The recipe is on post #191 of this thread.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: grathan on March 29, 2014, 03:07:41 PM
Brewing this weekend.

 Looking forward to using a large quantity of Brown malt for the first time. I'm having a hard time picturing how this will effect flavor.

 That pound of pale chocolate is gonna lend quite a bit of flavor.


Also using WLP023 for the first time.

Report back in a month or two.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on March 30, 2014, 04:58:18 AM
Fantastic!  I'm looking forward to the results everyone achieves.  My schedule is just plain crazy lately.  I'm traveling during the week for the next month or so, with only weekends to to brew.  It's difficult to monitor fermentation temps when I'm out of town, so I usually hold off on brewing.  Also, I have to go to Indonesia and Singapore on business in early June and will be there at least three weeks. 

I'm not sure when I'll get this brewed, but I'll find a way to slip it into the rotation.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on April 06, 2014, 10:30:09 PM
Who's brewed this so far?

I wonder what would happen if we retried this experiment on homebrewtalk.com or another forum. Could be fun to get even more brewer's knowledge on something like this.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: grathan on April 07, 2014, 03:03:22 AM
I did brew it. Exact. I think it's a good idea and would do it again. Though perhaps with people who actually plan on brewing it would be 2x the fun. Maybe even a bottle share.

Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on April 07, 2014, 03:14:04 AM
I do plan on brewing it, just gotta make the time.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on April 07, 2014, 10:47:15 AM
I do plan on brewing it, just gotta make the time.

Same with me, but I have to fit it into the rotation.  I'm brewing a Stout on April 13th.  I'm not brewing on the April the 12th, because my wife and I are going to Gilgamesh Brewing in Salem, Oregon for a brewing competition.  I have two beers entered in it.  Maybe you and I can brew it in May.  What's your best weekend in May to brew this up?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on April 08, 2014, 12:08:40 PM
Pretty much any saturday or sunday. As long as we can plan this out a couple weeks in advance so I can plan for it.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: BILLY BREW on April 16, 2014, 09:25:05 AM
well, as you can see...old day late and dollar short here...Couple of questions;
Did we determine a water profile, or should we use our own?
The Munich, is that 10 02 20 L?
Could not find "pale" chocolate.
Hopiing to put the order in for the bill this week.
I put it inoto a blank recipe on a Robust Porter and the scales were all off the charts.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on April 16, 2014, 03:48:12 PM
billy brew. I'm using London water, my Munich is what they call light, I think that its 10L. I have pale choc but I think you could use reg choc say L 350 just use less. anyways that is what I would do.
It's funny, I'm planning to mill up the grains for this latter to night or tomorrow , so don't think your that late, I'm running behind myself.
  As far as the charts go, the abv will be high but all the other numbers should be in line with R Porter.     
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on April 19, 2014, 05:26:02 PM
just to let everyone know my brew day went good with this recipe and it is fermenting away on day 2 now. Ended up with 1.069 OG and it's @ 64 for temp. the notty yeast I used started slow, took 24 hr to kick in. hope that's not an indication that I under pitched. could be the temp when I pitched but it's rolling now so I'll check in when it hit FG.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: grathan on April 26, 2014, 07:09:27 PM
 

Just wanted to share my thoughts on this brew mainly from a flavor perspective (mainly because I don't have a firm understanding of categorized beer styles).

First off let me sing some praise for the Burton ale yeast. When I first tasted the starter I made I nearly dumped it because I thought it could be infected, but a quick Google search showed that this is high acetaldehyde yeast. It has a massive fruit taste that just totally completes this beer.

The second thing you notice with this beer is a high degree of roast. This combines with the high fruit from the yeast and just absolutely wows you with flavor. It's not dominant in chocolate or roasted barley or even the ton of brown malt, just a perfect combination of the three that also blends perfectly with the yeast. The alcohol also seems to blend in at a perfect level as well.

I can't comment on the hop level because I can't pick them out of beers other than massive IIPA style, but they certainly don't detract from the recipe at all.

This is actually one of the rare brews where I don't have any comments on what I would change for the next time brewing. The closest thing I could use to describe the overall flavor would be "a spot on clone for Guiness Foreign Extra Stout".
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on April 26, 2014, 10:49:56 PM


Just wanted to share my thoughts on this brew mainly from a flavor perspective (mainly because I don't have a firm understanding of categorized beer styles).

First off let me sing some praise for the Burton ale yeast. When I first tasted the starter I made I nearly dumped it because I thought it could be infected, but a quick Google search showed that this is high acetaldehyde yeast. It has a massive fruit taste that just totally completes this beer.

The second thing you notice with this beer is a high degree of roast. This combines with the high fruit from the yeast and just absolutely wows you with flavor. It's not dominant in chocolate or roasted barley or even the ton of brown malt, just a perfect combination of the three that also blends perfectly with the yeast. The alcohol also seems to blend in at a perfect level as well.

I can't comment on the hop level because I can't pick them out of beers other than massive IIPA style, but they certainly don't detract from the recipe at all.

This is actually one of the rare brews where I don't have any comments on what I would change for the next time brewing. The closest thing I could use to describe the overall flavor would be "a spot on clone for Guiness Foreign Extra Stout".

I'm glad you're so pleased with this.  I'll be brewing it towards the end of June.  I have to go to Singapore and Indonesia for three weeks coming up in the near future.  Before that I'm spending two weeks driving to Montana and back.  So, I have one Oud Bruin to brew up and get started and 25 gallons to get into bottles before I fly to SE Asia.

I expected it to be more porter-like, instead of stout like.  It is on the high end of the gravity range for a porter though.  You've got me excited!!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: BILLY BREW on April 29, 2014, 07:30:59 AM
Hey all!
Dissappointed to find that I cannot find some ingredients in my area.
The grains are the tough part with the pale chocolate & brown.
Everything else is available, but I want to do this exact. HELP! 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on April 29, 2014, 08:45:10 AM
I found that Carafa I, dehusked is close to pale chocolate. and briess  makes special roast that is close to brown malt.
  I take it that you must not want to go though the mail order and shipping cost, I don't like paying that shipping charge myself. it's the main reason I do not use liquid yeast much.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on April 29, 2014, 08:54:51 PM
I think I'm gonna brew a honey blonde ale next, but once my carboy is free ill do this one next. I might even use the yeast from this recipe so i have it ready to go.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: BILLY BREW on April 30, 2014, 06:47:21 AM
Thanks All Grain. I thought that the aeromatic bries might work, but again. If mine isn't exact, then it is just another brew.
Scott, next time may I suggest that we look to brew with ingredients that are easy for all to obtain. I have 4 brew shops near me and none of them had these two grains, nor did they ever. So I have to believe that they are a bit exclusive.
Just a thought.
Next batch for me is a Ginger Bohemian Pilsner. A most excellent warm weather brew. I will bsm and send out.
Another brew day ahead.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on May 03, 2014, 03:34:49 PM
well all I just started drinking the cal porter. I put some in a warmer place to carb up fast and it is ready and it is vary good beer. a small increase in the chocolate and some more bittering hopps and it would be the best
imho. I must say this beer will not last long around me. wish I could share one with ya all. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on May 03, 2014, 03:46:57 PM
I'm on my way!
I'm brewing a honey blonde ale next weekend. Im using the Burton yeast because I've never used it. But once i free up a carboy I'll brew this one. Hopefully ill brew it and have it kegged and carbonated before Scott brews his so we can drink it while brewing his batch.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: OzarkBrewer on May 14, 2014, 12:18:16 PM
I brewed this one and it's been carbonating for 4 weeks now.  It's imroved even more over the last two weeks.  It is very very good.  Smooth yet slightly thick and bold!  It came out almost exactly to the recipe on gravity start to finish.  It's a pretty beer and carries head retention all the way to the bottom of a pint!  I've had several and have shared it with friends and neighbors.  They are shocked that I could brew such a good easy drinking beer and say I should brew it again and again...so I will but I would like to brew a really good golden or brown ale and maybe a really good hoppy wheat for summer next and then do this one again.  Thanks to all the collaborators!  Cheers!!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on May 14, 2014, 12:38:14 PM
Fantastic!  I'm glad it turned out so well for you.  Brewmex41 and I will be brewing this porter side by side at my house in late June probably.  So far, everyone that's brewed it has been happy with it.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on May 29, 2014, 08:58:53 PM
Scott, you should copy and paste the recipe to the first post so its easier to find than searching for post #191
I'm gonna try and brew this this weekend. The magnum hops i have are 12.2% so ill move the oz to 60 min. I think I'll sub Simcoe for willamette and add the ekg at flameout.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on June 08, 2014, 10:05:20 PM
Brewing now.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on July 15, 2014, 02:41:32 AM
Thinking about entering this into the Clark County fair, but im not sure exactly what category to submit it in.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on July 15, 2014, 03:50:08 PM
12C. Baltic Porter is what I would say. only because of the higher og. the hops don't seam to much for this 12c style. I guess it depends on what your fg was.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on July 20, 2014, 05:38:32 PM
Well.  I'm finally going to be brewing this up in the near future.  Brewmex41 and I will be brewing it at the Vancouver Brewfest in Esther Short Park at the Cascadia Brewers Alliance tent on August 10th.  If you live in the Portland, Oregon/Vancouver, WA area, please stop by and check us out.  I'll be there all day on the 10th and parts of the day on the 9th and 11th.

Here is the link to the brewfest.  http://vancouverbrewfest.com/

There will be about 27 breweries involved.  Live music throughout the festival and a whole lot of great craft and microbrewed beers to try.  Many of the best beers from this part of the country will be available.  You can learn about brewing, taste some top craft beers, listen to some of the best music this area has to offer and have a great time. 

Our tent is focused on the homebrewer and education.  We will have someone brewing each day of the festival.

We look forward to seeing some of you there!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Roadrocket on July 22, 2014, 03:05:17 PM
Scott, that sounds great. I wish I could be there, I'd buy you a beer.

Practical demonstrations are a sure way to get people interested. I know everybody at the festival will be impressed with your knowledge and enthusiasm. Good luck with it and I hope you and Brewmex41 have a great time.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on August 10, 2014, 01:04:55 PM
Scott, that sounds great. I wish I could be there, I'd buy you a beer.

Practical demonstrations are a sure way to get people interested. I know everybody at the festival will be impressed with your knowledge and enthusiasm. Good luck with it and I hope you and Brewmex41 have a great time.

Thank you for the kind words.

Domingo and I did brew this Collarboration Porter at the Vancouver Brewfest yesterday.  I think I'm the last one to brew it up.  Domingo brewed his a few months back and entered it in a competition and I think it scored very respectably!  I don't remember what his score was though.  He'll have to chime in with that.

We hit all of our numbers dead on, except we were slightly short on volume.  I was hoping for 5.5 gallons into the fermenter at 1.067.  I had 5 gallon at 1.067.  It was quite warm by the time we started boiling, so I think my boil off took more water out than usual.  Still, if we'd have been at 5.5 gallons, we would have missed gravity low, so all in all, I'm pretty happy with it.

Here's a photo of myself (in the gray shirt) and one of our club members (Ryan Murphy) using his portable ice batch immersion chiller system to cool the wort down.  We got from boiling to 70F in 15 minutes.  He has a submersible pump that hooks up to the immersion chiller.  He fills the chest full of ice and about 2 gallons of cold water (just enough to get things started).  The first gallon of ice water is pumped through the chiller and into the sparge boil pot and this gets rid of the hottest water.  Then the discharge end of the immersion chiller gets moved from the sparge pot to the cooler full of ice and water and just goes in a circle.  It's very, very efficient.  There was still ice floating in the cooler when we finished.

Domingo had to leave before I thought to take a photo.  We hand crushed the grains on his barley crusher (we forgot a drill).  He was a beast turning that handle.  Oh, to be young again!  We had a nice crowd around during the mash and boil.  Fort Vancouver TV interviewed myself and our club president (Tyler Ward) later in the evening.  It was a great day!

Today the club is doing an extract brewing demo (Ryan and Tyler) of a Pale Ale at the Brewfest.  We set up a corn hole game behind our tent and that thing was busy all day long! 

Our club also reached an agreement in principle to brew up a batch on one of the local Brew Pubs systems for next years event.  So, next year our club will have a beer on tap at our tent and also on tap at that local Brew Pub.  I'll wait until we finalize the details about who we're brewing with, so that they can do any advertising and promotion on our collaboration.  It will probably be called some type of collaboration name for the beer, since we'll be collaborating with them on this.  They've won some awards for their beers already (a newer brewery), so we're excited to have our club brew on a professional system at an award winning brewery!  I think they're giving us complete control over the recipe design too, so that's makes it even more exciting.  We've been doing the research, so that we're obeying all of the state laws on this for next year. 

All in all, we've had a great weekend so far and will probably have about a dozen new club members at next months meeting.  We picked up about 20 new members after last years Brewfest.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on August 10, 2014, 06:56:35 PM
man wish I was there. when I brewed this beer up it ended up being one of the best beers I've made. since then I've made more porters but not as good as this one. thanks for your post and on keeping us all informed. oh by the way I always pictured you as a skinny guy, should of known better. 
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on August 10, 2014, 07:43:12 PM
man wish I was there. when I brewed this beer up it ended up being one of the best beers I've made. since then I've made more porters but not as good as this one. thanks for your post and on keeping us all informed. oh by the way I always pictured you as a skinny guy, should of known better.

Wow!  Did you just call me fat?  :o

 ;D

I used to be skinny, played basketball, lifted weights, could still reach a basketball rim when I was 37 years old.  The problem was, that I got a job traveling, eating out at restaurants/brew pubs all the time.  I tried to keep in shape at first, by doing the treadmills and bikes in the hotel fitness centers, but I slowly let up and it just ballooned (literally). 

I am down 20 pounds though and working to get down further.

Now, I'm wondering, did you enter your porter in a competition or anything?  For that matter, did anyone enter it in a competition?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: all grain on August 11, 2014, 05:49:51 AM
I have not took part in any competitions with any beer (s) yet but just the other day I was told that I should by someone I had just met. With just brewing 50 batches in 1.5 years and a lot of them experimental I still get pleasantly surprised when my beer turns out, better then expected. Then there's the possibility that the judges may give me 1st place and most would say that my head can not get any bigger then it already is. ha ha ha. In all seriousness I feel that I still have some bugs to work out in my recipes and mashing, till then I'm just lurking here and learning as much as I can.   
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on August 11, 2014, 11:24:06 AM
I got a 33/50 on it. I just drank the last one and while its a good beer, I'm more of a sweeter porter kinda guy. This one is pretty roasty and feels pretty dry as you drink it.
I've done cream porters and even a peanut butter porter.
Good beer however but lately I've been on a quadruple Ipa kick with a pound of hops per 5.5gallon batch lol
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on August 11, 2014, 10:16:18 PM
I have not took part in any competitions with any beer (s) yet but just the other day I was told that I should by someone I had just met. With just brewing 50 batches in 1.5 years and a lot of them experimental I still get pleasantly surprised when my beer turns out, better then expected. Then there's the possibility that the judges may give me 1st place and most would say that my head can not get any bigger then it already is. ha ha ha. In all seriousness I feel that I still have some bugs to work out in my recipes and mashing, till then I'm just lurking here and learning as much as I can.

Actually, the feedback from the judges might point you in a direction that you would have never considered on your own.  I've learned a little bit from just about every entry.  Some more than others.  It's a good process to go through in my opinion.

As far as friends, many times, they won't want to hurt your feelings, so you can't always count on an unbiased opinion.  I tend to seek out those brewers and friends that are brutally honest with me.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on September 02, 2014, 10:51:17 PM
I got a 33/50 on it. I just drank the last one and while its a good beer, I'm more of a sweeter porter kinda guy. This one is pretty roasty and feels pretty dry as you drink it.
I've done cream porters and even a peanut butter porter.
Good beer however but lately I've been on a quadruple Ipa kick with a pound of hops per 5.5gallon batch lol

What was your final gravity on it Domingo? 

I just racked mine to the secondary tonight.  It was on the primary from August 9 to September 2 (24 days).  When I racked it the gravity was at 1.020.  Beersmith predicted 1.021, so it's right there!  I tasted it and it's sweeter and not that roasty (maybe just a touch, which I like).  It was more malty and chocolatey with a really good mouthfeel.  I'll probably be kegging it at the end of the month.

I'm pretty pleased with the way it tastes so far.  Since I was traveling out of the state and country for the last 3 weeks my wife took care of it and babysat the fermentation temperatures for me!  I had it in my utility sink with cold water covering it up to the 4 gallon mark beer level, and I had a damp towel around it with a fan blowing on it.  My wife kept three frozen 2 liter bottles in the water for about the first 4 days, until the airlock slowed down to about a bubble every minute or so.  She then stopped adding the ice.  The fermentation temperature for the first 4 days stayed pretty steady between 68-69 F.  The temperature rose to about 73F for the next 7 days.  It's been holding at about 70F since then.

She did a wonderful job, since the ambient temperatures were in the upper 80's and low 90's through a lot of the fermentation!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on September 27, 2014, 12:51:03 PM
How is it scott?
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on September 27, 2014, 05:12:57 PM
I don't have a clue.  It's still in the fermenter.  I haven't had a chance to keg it yet.  I'm still waiting on the temperature controller for my keezer.  I do have a spare keg to put it in though.  I just haven't had time.  I've been traveling for 8 weeks and I have 2 more weeks of travel to go.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on October 15, 2014, 11:38:23 AM
Well it should be pretty tasty by now!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on October 15, 2014, 12:11:33 PM
It's in the keg, carbonated and cold.  It tastes wonderful.  It has a nice chocolatey flavor, great mouthfeel, with a touch of toffee and vanilla also.  I'm very pleased with it!!
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on October 15, 2014, 01:13:08 PM
If you are free Saturday nov 1st I'm having a small event at my place for learn to homebrew day. Maybe you could bottle one up and bring it! My son's soccer practice is over at 11 so i was thinkin about starting at noon.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Scott Ickes on October 15, 2014, 01:26:05 PM
If I can make it, I will.  I'll put it in a growler.

If you can remember, send me an email reminder.
Title: Re: BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
Post by: Brewmex41 on October 15, 2014, 01:31:02 PM
Alright, Can do Scott! I got a coworker interested in starting brewing his own beer.