BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.

[bucknut]

So at 70% efficiency and 5.5 gallon batch size I'm getting 1.068 est OG and 19.7 Ibus from the 1/2 oz magnum (13.7% AA)

I agree on upping both hop additions depending on the third hop choice.

Right now I'm thinking EKG at 5min at least an ounce, I'm at work right now so I don't have excess to my recipe or BS software to give anyone solid ibu #'s. Will post them later when we settle on the amount's for 2nd hop addition.

[Scott Ickes]

We'll await a few more replies on Billy Brews hops first, before moving on to the last hop.

I wouldn't worry too much though about the amounts and IBU's at this point.  Let's concentrate on the hop flavors and aromas that we want.  Then we can tweak the amounts of each to get the IBU's where we want them to be.

[Roadrocket]

Could the third choice be added before the second?

I was thinking that adding some flavour hops at say 20 or 30 minutes might work well. Any good traditional hop would be great and it would blend perfectly with the Willamette.

We've got plenty of clean bitterness from the Magnum. Some extra hop flavour might balance the roasted malt and add complexity.

[drb1215]

I don't see why not. You can specify your hop selection and the time of the addition.

[Scott Ickes]

Could the third choice be added before the second?

I was thinking that adding some flavour hops at say 20 or 30 minutes might work well. Any good traditional hop would be great and it would blend perfectly with the Willamette.

We've got plenty of clean bitterness from the Magnum. Some extra hop flavour might balance the roasted malt and add complexity.

Of course it can. 

[Scott Ickes]

Time for the last hop addition.

Here is where we're at:

DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                               Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.                        Chose 2 lbs. of Brown Malt
Grathan                            Mash Profile.                                                          Chose Mash Temp of 156F/69C for a full body beer
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.              Chose .5 ounce of Magnum (60 minutes)(13.7 AA,23.8 IBU)
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.          Chose 1 ounce of Willamette (15 minutes)(6 AA,10.3 IBU)
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection

Based on the comments, etc., I changed the Willamette to 1 ounce of 6% AA at 15 minutes for an IBU contribution of 10.3 IBU's.

The style guidelines are 25-50 IBU's.  Because are OG is at about 1.067 and slightly above the style guidelines, we probably need to get the IBU's of this recipe up close to the 50 IBU range.  We're currently at 34.1 IBU's.

Bucknet, you're up!
What is your third hop variety (it can be the same hop variety as a previous selection)?  What is the AA% of your hop variety and what is the addition time?  We look forward to your selection!!  Don't worry if you don't get the IBU's up to about 50, as we can adjust the other hops, or even make changes per group suggestions (such as adding a fourth hop, or backing down the OG).  What we're looking for is the flavor and bitterness you'd like your hop selection to contribute.

We're getting close.

[bucknut]

I'm going with 1 oz EKG (5.00% AA) at 5 min.

[Scott Ickes]

Here is where we're at:

DRB1215                           Style of recipe to be designed.                            Chose Robust Porter
Road Rocket                      Base Grain and quantity.                                    Chose 10 lbs. of Maris Otter Malt
All Grain                            Specialty grain and quantity.                               Chose 1 lb. of Pale Chocolate Malt
Scott Ickes                       Second specialty grain and quantity.                    Chose 1.5 lbs. of Munich Malt
Brewmex41                      Third specialty grain and quantity.                        Chose 2 lbs. of Brown Malt
Grathan                            Mash Profile.                                                          Chose Mash Temp of 156F/69C for a full body beer
WinnepegFats                  First hop type, quantity and time added.              Chose .5 ounce of Magnum (60 minutes)(13.7 AA,23.8 IBU)
Billy Brew                         Second hop type, quantity and time added.          Chose 1 ounce of Willamette (15 minutes)(6 AA,10.3 IBU)
Bucknut                           Third hop type, quantity and time added.               Chose 1 ounce of East Kent Goldings (5 minutes)(5.7 AA,3.9 IBU)
CMBrougham                   Yeast selection

Bucknut's EKG's adds 3.9 IBU's for a total IBU count of 38.1.  We're well short of what I think we need for IBU's.  I think we need to get up close to 50.  We might need to increase our Magnum up front or add a 30 minute hop addition.

I put it in at 5.7% because that is the AA that most of the current EKG are that are currently available in the US.  We'll allow each person to adjust accordingly when they brew this.

By the way, I applaud the EKG's finishing hop!  It's perfect for an English Robust Porter.  In my opinion, the choice by bucknut to get a finishing hop in the recipe that will provide an aroma of floral, aromatic and earthiness, with a slightly sweet spicy flavor is fantastic!  He left the additional bittering to the group, which allows us to debate how to get the bitterness up to the appropriate level for the maltiness of the beer.

+1 to Bucknut!!


Comments, thoughts, suggestions?

[all grain]

I'm for adding some hop at 60 or 45,or 30 to get the ibu's up. what kind is up to ya' all.

[bucknut]

What about one of these hops...

Perle (German) 6-8.5% - Moderately intense, good and hoppy, fruity and a little spicy
Nugget 11-14.5% - Quite heavy and herbal
Target (U.K.) 9.5-12.5% - Pleasant English hop aroma, quite intense

I'm intrigued by the Target hops, anyone here ever used them? 

[Scott Ickes]

I've never used target.  .5 ounce at 20 minutes (AA% of 11) would get us an additional 11.6 IBU's and put us at 49.6 IBU total for the recipe.

I've attached what I have for my equipment, etc.  Please feel free to look it over and make comments.

No yeast yet.  Once we figure out the final version of the grains, hops, etc. then will have CMBrougham choose our yeast.

[cmbrougham]

I'll admit to not being entirely crazy about this hop schedule. With the amount of roasted grains, it makes almost no sense to bother with aroma/flavor hops--they'll be pretty much lost in the fray.

I think it's under-bittered, as well. As a matter of economy--and since we're already buying a full ounce of Magnum whether it's used or not (as that is the most common amount you can buy)--why not increase the Magnum addition to 1 oz. but move the addition until later in the boil. Following the rough values we've outlined, moving this addition to 30 minutes will give a total bitterness with all hop additions of about 48 IBUs (give or take a few depending on AA of hops you receive). I'm with Scott--we're going to need all of this to make this not taste like coffee-flavored syrup--and rather than pick a fourth hop to randomly throw in, let's stick with the three we've already selected. Another option is to use the other 0.5 oz later in the boil; Magnum has a pretty minimal flavor/aroma impact anyway, so I don't think it matters where it goes so long as it adds to the bitterness we'll need for balance.

Just my two bits...

[Scott Ickes]

I'll admit to not being entirely crazy about this hop schedule. With the amount of roasted grains, it makes almost no sense to bother with aroma/flavor hops--they'll be pretty much lost in the fray.

I think it's under-bittered, as well. As a matter of economy--and since we're already buying a full ounce of Magnum whether it's used or not (as that is the most common amount you can buy)--why not increase the Magnum addition to 1 oz. but move the addition until later in the boil. Following the rough values we've outlined, moving this addition to 30 minutes will give a total bitterness with all hop additions of about 48 IBUs (give or take a few depending on AA of hops you receive). I'm with Scott--we're going to need all of this to make this not taste like coffee-flavored syrup--and rather than pick a fourth hop to randomly throw in, let's stick with the three we've already selected. Another option is to use the other 0.5 oz later in the boil; Magnum has a pretty minimal flavor/aroma impact anyway, so I don't think it matters where it goes so long as it adds to the bitterness we'll need for balance.

Just my two bits...

Good points!  Agreed.

[cmbrougham]

Thanks, Scott. Another option--though I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense--would be to add more of one of the lower AA hops. For example if we increase the Willamette addition to 2 oz., we get to about 44-45 IBU, which is pretty decent. This might give this addition some chance of being noticed, too! It just means purchasing another ounce of hops, accommodating for additional absorption/loss, etc. After all, this is why high alpha hops have gained favor.

[Scott Ickes]

I prefer you magnum idea.