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Beer aging question

Beer-Me

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Hello

Is it better to bottle age beer so you can maintain carbonation or can you age beer in a carboy or bucket and still achieve a good level of carbonation after bottling?


Thanks
 
In the bottle.  Or else the yeast will be old & tired to carbonate later.
 
Thing about aging it in a bucket or carboy is head space. That air changes volume with temperature.  As the seasons change, so does the temperature. Depending on how much head space there is, those temperature fluctuations could cause enough negative pressure (assuming the yeast is done and no longer creating positive pressure) to suck in air (and possibly liquid) through the airlock. That's an invitation for an infection. 

That said, I did have a batch of ale sit over the summer in secondary (all my kegs were full) and it came out fine. But I put it into a keg, so that doesn't answer your question about yeast health.

My understanding is that some of those bottle conditioned brews made by monks are aged in bulk, but they add a second addition of yeast at bottling time. Often it's not even the same strain they used to brew.

For us homebrewers though, it's probably best to bottle/keg beer when it's ready rather than age it in a bucket or carboy.
 
I'm not sure if I understand what really is being discussed here, which is not unusual for me.
What I think is, there really is a difference between bottle aging and bulk aging, and the method I choose has a lot to do with what I am brewing and the results I want to get.

I bottle age/condition my ales giving enough time for primary fermentation to complete clean up and I bulk cold age/condition my lagers for a minimum four weeks in a Slim Jim or carboy after flushing with carbon dioxide allowing as little air space as possible.  After the extended lagering time there is still plenty of yeast viable to carbonate after bottling.

A short excerpt from How to Brew by John Palmer (pg.91-92) might better portray my thoughts as follows:  Quote!

Secondary Fermentator vs. Bottle Conditioning:
Conditioning can be done in either the secondary fermentor or the bottle, but the two methods do produce different results.  It is up to you to determine how long to give each phase to produce your intended beer.
Yeast activity is responsible for conditioning, so it is logical that the greater yeast mass in the fermentor is more effective at conditioning than the smaller amount of suspended yeast in the bottle. This is why I recommend that you give your beer more time in the fermentor before bottling.  When you add the priming sugar and bottle your beer, the yeast go through the same three stages  of fermentation as the main batch, including the production of by-products. If the beer is bottled , early, e.g., one week old, then the small amount of yeast in the bottle has to do the double task of  conditioning the priming by-products as well as those from the main fermentation. You could very well end up with an off-flavored batch.

Studies have shown that priming and bottle conditioning is a very unique form of fermentation due to the oxygen present in the head space of the bottle, only about 30% of which is used. The other 70% can contribute to staling reactions. Additional fermentables have been added to the beer to produce the carbonation, and this results in very different ester profiles than those that are normally produced in the main fermenter. In some styles, like Belgian-style strong ale, bottle conditioning and the resultant flavors are the hallmark of the style. These styles cannot be produced with the same flavors via kegging.
For the best results, the beer should be given time to condition before priming and bottling. And to minimize the risk of off-flavors from sitting on the trub, extended conditioning should be done in a secondary fermenter. There will still be sufficient yeast in suspension to ferment the priming sugar and carbonate the beer, even if the yeast have flocculated and the beer has cleared.

End quote!

With that said, I also agree with Maine Homebrewer about longer term aging (i.e. multi months).  In that case I would probably want to either bottle condition with possible a different clean finishing yeast or krausen
Again, I may be misunderstading the question...



 
texasdan said:
With that said, I also agree with Maine Homebrewer about longer term aging (i.e. multi months).  In that case I would probably want to either bottle condition with possible a different clean finishing yeast or krausen
Again, I may be misunderstading the question...

Would this be the same principle if you were going to condition age in a bourbon barrel for possibly 6 months to a year?
 
With that said, I also agree with Maine Homebrewer about longer term aging (i.e. multi months).  In that case I would probably want to either bottle condition with possible a different clean finishing yeast or krausen

Since I've never barrel aged, I would assume that would be the case.  From the same book, Chapter 11, Pg. 114, on cold lagering more than 2 months and adding fresh yeast
Quote!  If the beer is very clear at bottling time, then the majority of the yeast may have settled out, and there may not be enough left to carbonate the beer in the bottle.  Prepare some fresh yeast of the same strain, and mix it with the priming solution when you rack the beer to the bottling bucket........  Endquote!

It goes on to cover amounts, etc.
And as Maine Homebrewer said, often it doesn't necessarily have to be the same strain.

p.s.  I'm not sure if I should have used the word "assume" .  I worked in the IT world until I retired over 20 yrs ago starting with wired boards, tabulating machines, punched paper tape and strict numeric programming.  What a relief when we got 4000 bytes of storage, and, if you didn't need to punch cards, an 81 additional bytes punch area if you got fancy.  When I told my boss I assumed something, he said he didn't want me to ever use that word around him again.  He said it would probably make an A$$ out of U and ME...  Either I knew or I didn't.

 
I usually, transfer to a secondary 5 gal glass to reduce head space and plastic is porous if you plan on aging for an extend period (1-2 weeks).  Bottling conditioning isn't aging.  You adding sugars to carbonate.  The production of CO2 in the beer does change the perception of flavor slightly.  Cheers
 
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