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Carboy Seal for Cold Crash

kedro38

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Feb 1, 2013
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Just started kegging and am going to cold crash the carboy but once after a power failure I was millimeters away from having a rubber stopper with 3 piece air lock sucked into a carboy.  After that lesson and some research I ranked what I thought would work best but was hoping for some feedback or other options:

1.  Plastic wrap sealed with a rubber/gummy band (Thought this would keep all the air out but worried the plastic wrap might bust)
2.  Tinfoil (Used as a starter air lock but I’m sure some air is going to be sucked in)
3.  S/Bubble Airlock with minimal fluid (Air will get sucked in and potentially any vodka/water/sanitizer)
4.  Long blow off tube (Air in the tube will get sucked in and potentially any vodka/water/sanitizer)
5.  Condom (Having a used condom in my beer supplies just doesn’t seem right… even if it was just used for an air lock)
 
I've been using foil for quite some time with nary a problem. I remove the airlock and stopper pre-crash, re-sanitize the top of the carboy, sanitize (spritz with Star San) a new piece of foil and place on the carboy, fairly snug. Some air is going to get sucked in but is not likely to cause a problem as long as basic sanitation is practiced.
 
Ended up soaking a paper towel in a sanitizer then covered the carboy with the paper towel and plastic wrap then wrapped it tight with a “Go Army” gummy band.

…Giving this cold crash time is becoming difficult because I have been without a home brew for far too long!
 
Don't bother with an air lock if you are worried. Open fermentation has been going on for thousands of years. I have a $2500 stainless conical fermenter and half the time I don't even bother to put the cap on it. It just doesn't matter.
 
Freak said:
Don't bother with an air lock if you are worried. Open fermentation has been going on for thousands of years. I have a $2500 stainless conical fermenter and half the time I don't even bother to put the cap on it. It just doesn't matter.

Actually, if one is worried, fussing with the details is at the heart of the issue.

I'm sorry you spent so much for an uninsulated fermenter (I spent much less), but every single one of your videos shows an airlock. You actually show the bubbling.

While brewing has been going on for thousands of years, everything you know about it is less than 200. All of that includes advancements in understanding biology, chemistry and just plain good flavor.
 
I'm pretty sure that a couple batches got ruined (oxidized) last year because of cold crashing with a non-sealed top. On the other hand one fermenter almost got ruined because of a sealed top. Having >= %40 headspace in all instances.

My favorite method if I were to cold crash would be in a secondary with no head space. Ferment in a 6.5 gallon or larger fermenter and then transfer to a 5 gallon glass secondary before cold crashing.

If a batch comes along that ends up under 5 gallons I would use a cornelius keg. This makes it really easy to purge with co2.


I only really worry about oxidation if there is significant dry hop amounts. More than 4 oz per 5 gallons.



Since you just started kegging, I would share my favorite method. that is just cold-crashing in the serving keg. Sure, there is gonna be sediment in the first couple pours, but it soon turns crystal clear.
 
A couple of videos that show a blow off tube on my fermenter doesn't mean that is my only method. No one trick pony here. Most of the videos on my blog are really old and don't represent everything I do. I have made a few hundred batches of beer over 23 years and many of them are done completely open. Just for you I will do a totally open batch and video it for you. I do it many ways. It often has to do with the style, my mood or experimentation. As for paying too much for my fermenter, I bought the damn thing in 1995 and you just couldn't find the stuff back then that you can find these days. It is 1/4 thick stainless and has a glycol chill band on it. Not sure why it would need to be insulated but I guess you know more about that than I do.
 
Freak, the tone of your posts has shifted since that first round. Maybe too much homebrew was part of it. That’s cool, it happens to all of us.

Freak said:
A couple of videos that show a blow off tube on my fermenter doesn't mean that is my only method. No one trick pony here. Most of the videos on my blog are really old and don't represent everything I do.

But it does represent what you wanted to show the world about your brewing. It represents what you were/are proud of. The whole point of a blog is to inform the world about your point of view. Nowhere is open fermentation portrayed.

In fact, I see a lot of aseptic practices that ensure clean beer.  What I see is a brewing team having a great time with a brewing room and setup that would make any brewer horny. Yet, for some reason, this is not what you’re communicating in this forum and I’m confused by that.

I have made a few hundred batches of beer over 23 years

Let me just interrupt you, there. There is a LOT of experience on this forum. There are scientists, authors, engineers, and pro brewers among them. I have your experience beat by 3 years, and that’s just the start of my beer resume. So, time in alone isn’t much, it’s what you’re bringing to the table that matters.

and many of them are done completely open. Just for you I will do a totally open batch and video it for you. I do it many ways. It often has to do with the style, my mood or experimentation.

Don’t do a batch just for me, unless I’m going to get to taste it, too. Do it and document it for the same reason you talk about it here; to educate. Enter it in competitions and show off the ribbons.

Open fermentation is a valid technique, but like any technique, there are right and wrong ways to go about it. Nowhere in your posts do you mention that the beer should be racked to a closed fermenter before the krausen falls. Here are two videos that show commercial open fermentation. Note that BOTH are racked before the krausen falls.

The first one is Bigfoot, from Sierra Nevada.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xClXKMhcFr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA3pPPXi7KM

Northern Brewer did a How-To video. Even though the krausen has fallen on the demo batch, they make the point that it has to be racked before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9xT8DHOZFE

But, hey… These are just modern interpretations of  a “time honored” technique, right? 

Freak, didn’t you mention that you like to follow the really old timey techniques because it makes you feel more connected to tradition? Well, I went to my personal brewing library to get the perspective of 278 year old advice.  London and Country Brewer was first published in 1734 and important enough to be included in Jefferson’s library to be used for teaching brewing. The author’s name has been lost to time, but his poetic writing speaks to us, still.

How they saw yeast:
Yeast is a very strong acid, that abounds with subtil spirituous Qualities, whose Particles being wrapped up in those that are viscid, are by a mixture with them in the Wort, …  for as the spirituous Parts of the Wort will be continually striving to get up to the Surface, the glutinous adhesive ones of the Yeast will be as constant in retarding their assent, and so prevent their Escape.

On sanitation and clean brewing practice:
Foxing is a misfortune, or rather a Disease in Malt Drinks, occasioned by divers Means, as the Nastiness of the Utensils, putting the Worts too thick together in the Backs or Cooler, Brewing too often and soon one after another, and sometimes by bad Malts and Waters, and the Liquors taken in wrong Heats, being of such pernicious Consequence to the great Brewer in particular, that he sometimes cannot recover and bring his Matters into a right Order again under a Week or two … for when once the Drink is Tainted, it may be smelt at some Distance somewhat like a Fox; It chiefly happens in hot weather, and causes the Beer and Ale so Tainted to acquire a fulsome sickish taste, that will if it is receive'd in a great degree become Ropy like Treacle, and in some short time turn Sour. This I have known so to surprize my small Beer Customers, that they have asked the Drayman what was the matter.

On open fermentation:
By which the spirituous Particles are set loose and free from their viscid Confinements, as may appear by the Froth on the Top, and to this end a moderate warmth hastens the Operation, …but if this Operation is permitted to continue too long, a great deal will get away, and the remaining grow flat and vapid.

If open fermentation is allowed to go too long:
Now tho' a small quantity of Yeast is necessary to break the Band of Corruption in the Wort, yet it is in itself of a poisonous Nature, as many other Acids are … I have known several beat the Yeast into the Wort for a Week or more together to improve it, or in plainer terms to load the Wort with its weighty and strong spirituous Particles.... They alledge for beating the Yeast into Wort, that it gives it a fine tang or relish, or as they call it at London, it makes the Ale bite of the Yeast; …to me it proves a discovery of the infection by its nauseous taste. …But this, last way of beating in the Yeast too long, I think I have sufficiently detected, and hope, as it is how declining, it will never revive again

On Temperature control and racking:
Yeast is put into it, that it may gradually work two Nights and a Day at least, for this won't admit of such a hasty Operation as the common brown Ale will, because if it is work'd too warm and hasty, such Beer won't keep near so long as that fermented cooler. … then they take all the Yeast off at Top and leave all the Dregs behind, putting only up the clear Drink, and when it is a little work'd in the Barrel, it will be fine in a few Days and ready for drinking.

To distill the 278 year old open fermentation advice: Ferment cool, use clean equipment and don’t leave it out too long because that beer stinks!

Quite frankly, at 26 years and counting, I still haven’t stopped learning about beer and brewing.
 
Freak said:
I have made a few hundred batches of beer over 23 years... As for paying too much for my fermenter, I bought the damn thing in 1995 and you just couldn't find the stuff back then that you can find these days.

Buying a conical in 1995 is pretty badd-ass. It shows awareness of how technology can amplify good technique. The fact you spent what would be $9500 in today's dollars for something nobody else had shows a huge desire to embrace good brewing.

I started 26 years ago and we both know that the information, ingredients and techniques were crap, back then. A lot of homebrewing has been driven by people with access to good science, newer information and better equipment.

Throughout history, brewers have been first in on new technology and information. First with Germ Theory, steam for power, thermometers, hydrometers, refrigeration, glass making, farming practice, metallurgy. All for improving the reliability of beer making.

Brewing can be an amazingly simple hobby. From Stovetop to the mancave you've built it's all for the same thing, to make good beer. Why crap on reliable techniques? To demystify brewing? It's so much easier to just teach good process than it is to try to explain it all away.

I make a few hundred batches every year. For money. What I make in a month is more than you've made in a lifetime. There, do we have that perspective straight? Good, because it doesn't amount to a hill of beans, when it comes to sharing brewing information, here.

I've never put up an introductory post because it won't make my advice any better. I have deep homebrewing roots. I don't need to recite my resume and experience. There are plenty of people on this board that know who I am in the brewing community. I share information to help make better brewers. Occasionally, I grind against some tradition, superstition or folklore because it is inhibiting brewers from embracing the fruits of their labor. I don't do it to be just contrary or an iconoclast.
 
brewfun said:
I make a few hundred batches every year. For money. What I make in a month is more than you've made in a lifetime. There, do we have that perspective straight? Good, because it doesn't amount to a hill of beans, when it comes to sharing brewing information, here.

I've never put up an introductory post because it won't make my advice any better. I have deep homebrewing roots. I don't need to recite my resume and experience. There are plenty of people on this board that know who I am in the brewing community. I share information to help make better brewers. Occasionally, I grind against some tradition, superstition or folklore because it is inhibiting brewers from embracing the fruits of their labor. I don't do it to be just contrary or an iconoclast.

+1 to this. 

If anyone here could claim real Credentials, and play trump cards....

The Ad hominem defense doesn't work any better than the attack. 
 
brewfun said:
Freak said:
I have made a few hundred batches of beer over 23 years... As for paying too much for my fermenter, I bought the damn thing in 1995 and you just couldn't find the stuff back then that you can find these days.

I make a few hundred batches every year. For money. What I make in a month is more than you've made in a lifetime. There, do we have that perspective straight? Good, because it doesn't amount to a hill of beans, when it comes to sharing brewing information, here.

Brewfun...You already had my attention and admiration before I even knew this information about you.  +1

Freak...You already had my attention, but instead from a "look out for the little guys well-being" standpoint, as I feel that you're advice has for the most part been detrimental to the new brewers venture into this great hobby that we all enjoy.  -1
 
Brewfun, I agree with all that you have said. Open fermentation... of coarse, make it short. That is obvious to you and I. Ales are done in 4 or 5 days anyway. We all know that. That is not the debate here. (Not to mention that I have had like a 5 day argument with a bunch of dip sticks that say I have never done it (open fermentation) and, that it isn't possible, just because the 15 videos over many, many, years don't show me doing it. Dorks.) Young brewers just don't know that they can open ferment and we get all these fools in here that tell them that because they didn't put the air lock on, or something, that they screwed up their beer. They don't have a clue. Then I get guys like Scott that want some sort of video proof that I have actually done this??? How stupid. I do it all the time. I learned to brew in a clay crock that sat outside. An old hippie buddy of mine taught me how to brew. Just because footage of this isn't in the dozen or so videos on my very outdated blog doesn't mean I don't do this or, it isn't possible. You know it is. I do it all the time. If you are truly a brewer then you know all about open fermentation and you should pass your skills onto these fools that think it is some sort of myth. The problem here is that the new brewer thinks, because of a simple mistake, they have to toss their beer down the drain. Give them a freaking chance to learn from their mistakes and, learn that what they think are mistakes are actually good lessons. I don't claim to be a know-it-all. I'm just a home brewer (not one of these experts here on beer smith forum). You are obviously a professional brewer. I respect that. What I have a problem with is when a guy comes in here and he tells us that he is brewing his first batch and has a simple question that requires a simple answer we get all of these armature brewers (like me) that give them these long ass, complicated answers that only confuse them and make them want to give up. They get turned off from the craft. Make it simple for them. There is no damn reason to confuse new brewers by trying to show them how smart you think you are when you really only started brewing 5 or 10 years ago yourself. You lack hundreds of years of experimentation. That is all I'm trying to say.
 
"Occasionally, I grind against some tradition, superstition or folklore because it is inhibiting brewers from embracing the fruits of their labor. I don't do it to be just contrary or an iconoclast."

This was by far your best quote brewfun.

I grind against tradition all the time because I see way too many armatures (like myself) giving bad information to young brewers that just want to know how to add yeast to sugar water and get a good tasting beer out of it. It just isn't that difficult but, too many people try to show off what they think they know and it blows it all up. These guys need to just give simple instructions. Don't show off.

I like you brewfun. I think you get me.
 
Freak said:
... way too many armatures (like myself) giving bad information to young brewers ... too many people try to show off what they think they know and it blows it all up. ... Don't show off.

I hope you begin to follow your own advise.
 
ole happy here. WOW!!! such todo about a few cold beers! My thoughts on this only.Brew fun makes good points about ALL those batches he makes and for the record he is one of the few i take advise from. Freak has just come to our forum recently but says he has alot of experience but he goes against the grain of all this "wisdom". Like I said i always put faith in brewfuns posts  and believe in what he speaks but really when I walk thru the beer caves around here i see hundreds of beers i have tried and there is only a few that i consider "good". I mean that i will buy for the second time.That said they,re taste is what i go by not they,re techniques. I don,t know how long we been makin beer but the fact that we keep makin it stands for somethin.If it kept comin out bad tastin people would have found somethin else to drink.
 
sorry i went too long but i wish we could stay with debate and try not to argue. By the way Freak i have a batch brewin right now in a 10 gallon crock that i have used for 20 years and drank all the beer that was made in it except what friends have begged me outta! i dont do competitions because of time or maybe because they bore me. i just love to brew and drink the outcomes.  Happy Brewin
 
happy hillbilly said:
Like I said i always put faith in brewfuns posts  and believe in what he speaks

Um... wow... Thank you. I'm humbled. I don't really have anything to reply to this, but I want to acknowledge the kind words. Thank you. Beer is community.
 
Brew in a crock one time and you will understand that beer is just beer and it really doesn't mater how you get from point A to point B. Hillbilly is on point. Sugar water in a clay crock and yeast is where I started and it is where I end. It's just beer and it doesn't have to be hard to make. Good call Hillbilly.

 
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