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Auto-select Sytle?

tehjrow

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When I put all my ingredients in, is there a way to get Beersmith to "guess" the style of the beer?
 
I don't think so.  But I have opened up the style list, moved it to the side so I can see my numbers, then sorted the list by gravity or something, and looked for a close match.
 
No. BeerSmith doesn't reverse engineer your recipe.

The guide is there for you to select appropriate ingredients and have BeerSmith show you where your specs are.

It creates a question for me.... Why would you want BeerSmith or any other software tell you what you're brewing?

It kind of leads to the idea that every beer has to be a "style" which isn't true. Sometimes, they're just good. There is so much grey area as both gaps and crossover between styles that I believe any recipe decisions should be conscious, informed and intentional.

I get it if you're new and just exploring the idea of brewing to style. Yet, banging out recipe ingredients like a monkey with a typewriter isn't going to help you understand the fundamentals of flavor development. Reading recipes from other brewers helps frame the ingredients needed for a style, plus show that there are lots of ways to get to a style. Beyond that, there are books to explain the framework, history and evolution of beer "styles."
 
About once every ten brew sessions, I'll be down to about 8 to 10 lbs. of base grain and some assorted small quantities of some specialty grains and three or four small quantities of hops.  I'll measure out all of the grains and put them into BeerSmith.  I'll then do what has been suggested by Beer Tigger and I'll sort through the styles list for a few different characteristics.

Starting gravity is the first thing I'll sort for.  This will give me a shorter list of beer styles to chose from. 

I'll then look through the shorter list and compare the grains I'm using (including the % of the grist of each grain) to the profiles for the different styles on my list.

That usually gets me down to a much shorter list of 3 or 4 different styles to choose from. 

At this point I'll look at the types of hops and yeast and level of hopping used in those 3 or 4 styles and see what I have that fits one or more of the styles on my list.  This gives me a guide for adjusting the hops (including type, quanitity and addition time) to fit a style.

I'll then look through the yeast I have on hand (usually I have up to a half dozen strains that I've harvested, maybe one smack pack or vial and some dry yeasts). 

The last time I did this a made a Belgian Saison that turned out fantastic!  It was even better than the Belgian Saison that I made on purpose about a month before.  I used the yeast I harvested from that batch for this "use up my ingredients" batch.  I like the beer and how close I think it is to style so much that I entered it recently into the Capitol Brewers 9th Annual Homebrewers Classic at Gilgamesh Brewing in Salem, Oregon. 

The judging is two days away at Gilgamesh.  My wife and I are heading down there for lunch and a few beers before they announce the winners, etc.  We'll probably get there at about 1 p.m.  They plan to announce the winners shortly after 3 p.m.  I have high hopes for this beer.

I entered a Russian Imperial Stout also.  The RIS was entered in a competition last summer when it had only been in the bottles for about 2 weeks and scored 43.5, so I have high hopes for that one as well, since it's had time to mature and get happy.
 
Scott Ickes said:
The judging is two days away at Gilgamesh.  My wife and I are heading down there for lunch and a few beers before they announce the winners, etc.  We'll probably get there at about 1 p.m.  They plan to announce the winners shortly after 3 p.m.  I have high hopes for this beer.
I entered a Russian Imperial Stout also.  The RIS was entered in a competition last summer when it had only been in the bottles for about 2 weeks and scored 43.5, so I have high hopes for that one as well, since it's had time to mature and get happy.

Happy brewer, happy beer!  Good luck Scott!
 
Slurk said:
Happy brewer, happy beer!  Good luck Scott!

Thanks Slurk!  I'll let you all know how I did.  I look at competition as a learning opportunity.  Since the tastings are blind, I get honest feedback from the judges.  I've learned that I need to take them with a grain of salt also.  It's sometimes difficult to get honest feedback from friends, family and fellow brewers.  Many friends and family drink Bud, Coors, Miller and don't understand any other style well enough to give quality feedback.  Fellow brewers can sometimes temper their criticisim or advice, as they worry that they will hurt your feelings.  I have one fellow brewer (works at my lhbs) who is brutally honest with me.  I value his feedback more than any other person.  His feedback on my dry stout was, it's not a good beer, however it is too style and it's well made.  His advice was to start from scratch, and find an award winning recipe for a starting point, if I want to make a dry stout to style.

This dry stout was dinged last year by a judge rather harshly for being sour.  Sour is an option with that style.  I attributed my low score (5 points lower for that particular judge, as compared to the other two judges) to a judge who either didn't understand the style guidelines, or didn't like soured beers.  Granted, it was a little overboard on the sour and deservedly should have been dinged for being too sour for the style.  I didn't have high hopes for that beer, so I took it as a learning experience.
 
I haven't really thought about it much but I like what brewfun said. "It kind of leads to the idea that every beer has to be a "style" which isn't true." That is a very profound statement. I like it! I spent the first few years brewing without even knowing what the styles were. It was not really talked about much back then but, we always seemed to create great beers. We had no idea what they were but, they were good. Then Pro Mash came along in 1993 I believe. With that we were introduced to the BJCP Guidelines and the rest is history. From that point on we brewed to the style guidelines. Kinda funny. Creativity sort of went out the window and, until now, I haven't really thought much about creating my own beer style. Thanks for the idea brewfun! I feel stupid that after all these years it just hit me. I have been so focused on brewing to style that I forgot where I came from. The next batch is going to be a creation from the heart. Thanks for the idea.
 
I know the idea of creating a new style is not a new one. BJCP is coming out with new guidelines this year I hear. Dark IPA among others are to be added in but, brewfun's comment really has me thinking. I can't believe it took me 20 years for the light to come on. Don't get me wrong. I have done plenty of experimentation over the years but never a completely new style. That is way out there. I'm curious brewfun, are you working on anything like this? I don't mean just adding some exotic fruit to an existing style. I mean a whole new style all together.
 
This concept of a new style reminds me of the beer I had at GABF in 2009. It was a beer that Barron's made. It was a smoked, sour, dopple bock. I just couldn't get enough of that beer. I have always wanted to make one. Just never did it. No one at GABF liked it but I thought it was a wonderful beer. That is what I am talking about. Something that is way out there. They combined 3 different concepts into one beer. I want to do something like that but, it has to be good, not strange.
 
Freak said:
I have done plenty of experimentation over the years but never a completely new style. That is way out there. I'm curious brewfun, are you working on anything like this? I don't mean just adding some exotic fruit to an existing style. I mean a whole new style all together.

How far do we have to go before is it really "a whole new style all together"? I've recently morphed my house pale ale to be closer to New Zealand Pale Ale. Does that count?  ;)

The American beer scene is full of interesting combinations, but arguments can be made that we're revisiting flavors of the past. I'm not looking to create something totally off the map and I'm probably not creative enough to think that way, either. Yet, I have and do explore extinct and historic styles.

Some recents (in the last four years):
Belgian Pilsner
Czech Amber
Bavarian Pale Ale
Wheatwine
100% wheat Berliner Weisse
17th Century Strong & Table Ales
19th century Brett Porter and Pale Ales
Patersbier

Some emerging styles that I'd like to make:
Spanish IPA (Spain)
Italian Grappa Saison
Gratzer
Kentucky Common
19th Century New York Amber Lager

While visiting Denver, I was able to try a couple of barrel aged, lightly sour Gruits. They were marvelous and definitely got me thinking about making one.
 
brewfun said:
While visiting Denver, I was able to try a couple of barrel aged, lightly sour Gruits. They were marvelous and definitely got me thinking about making one.

Yes, Gruitbier is definitely a very interesting area to explore and getting more and more popular in The Netherlands and Belgium. Jopenkerk brouwerij in Haarlem-The Netherlands, for example, produces an interesting Gruitbier based on a local recipe from the year 1407. They won gold in 2009 and silver in 2011 on the European Beer Star in the category herb and spice beer.
The Gruitbiers I've drunk (from Jopen and a Belgium one from Gent) were slightly sour (Geuze/Lambic style). They remind me of an experiment I did last year using boiled Reindeer lichen in one of my beers. I was positively surprised by the slightly sour taste and hop type flavour it gave. I used it in a "Mountain Beer" based on ingredients from the area of our mountain hut here in Norway. I got very positive response on this beer and will definitely develop it (the style/is it a style) further.

Talking about style. I agree with one of your remarks in a previous post "why your beer always has to be a style". I fully agree, however it is so much more easier describing/comparing your beer with existing styles :)

R, Slurk
 
Slurk said:
however it is so much more easier describing/comparing your beer with existing styles :)

Of course! The brewer's decision of what to call the beer is just that, the Brewer's decision. The OP wanted BS to name the style, which I found to be unnecessary. It's relevant to note that I'm certainly not advocating abandoning styles, because I've achieved very high BJCP rank by knowing them.

The way I listed the beers above, I gave them a "style" definition rather than a flavor description. It's just that many of those won't be found amongst the descriptions by BJCP, BA, CAMRA or AABC.

What I'm saying is that styles are a conversational and explorative starting point. Once the brewer understands ingredients and processes, their creativity should not be limited by either styles, nor the software they utilize.
 
I know this is an old post but I haven't bothered to get on to the forum for a while. Anyway, this is a topic that I don't think ever gets old. With that said, I want to add that sometimes the beer just becomes a style. What I mean by that is that you may target a certain style and decide later that it fits into another BJCP category. (My comment here is of coarse in response to the original post.) One of the best beers I ever made was (intended to be) a stout. We entered it into a competition and it didn't do well at all. We knew it was a bit weak (roast wise) for a stout but, it was still a very good beer. After the competition, we tasted it again. It seemed like it may fit more into the porter category. Those two beers are so close that they hardly deserve to have their own categories. Anyway, we entered the same exact beer at another competition (2 weeks later so, age had little impact) as a porter and, it got best of show. (I think it went from a 32 to like a 47. Don't remember.) I have a feeling if it were entered as a stout again it likely wouldn't have made the second round. My point here is that beer judging is very subjective and you should not get down about scores at a beer competition. In fact if it had landed on a different table in the first competition it may have done much better. We will never know. You have to understand that style guidelines are fuzzy sometimes. Competitions are good for boosting your cred among your beer club buds and it makes you feel good if you win but, the real goal here is to brew a beer that YOU enjoy. Don't bother yourself with the opinions of a bunch of other beer nerds if you like what you make. I should also add that when we were brewing religiously for competitions, at first we always tried to hit the high end of the OG for whatever style we were making. We quickly found out that you needed to be well above the high end. If BJCP calls for say 1.050 - 1.060, you better be at 1.065 - 1.070 or you are dead in the water. It don't mater what style you are making. Those judges don't have a hydrometer in their mouth and they are always looking for body. Trust me. We have done a ton of these comps and they are all the same. Keep your gravity high.
 
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