Step mash by water infusion

I tried to creat a four step mash using 'add a step' but wasnt able to.  I wanted to have 57 64 74 and 80ºC there abouts for a belgian dark strong beer.  It could only work out the first step which was add 22litres at 65 to get 57.  when I tried to use it to figure out the temperatire of the next addition it incorrectly calculated the water temp and I was too cold, leaving me running to the kettle.

Complete disaster.

craft_brewing said:

Complete disaster.

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You've left a lot to the imagination, here. 

Which brewing method are you using? is this BIAB? What's in the grist that needs a protein rest? What were the strike and infusion temperatures? What was the liquor to grist ratio?

If you attach your mash profile, it'd help get closer to the solution.  Also, do you know that you have the correct specific heat number for your mashtun?

A standard set of rest temps is 50, 60 and 70 C. I can think of a lot of reasons to use 57, 64 and 74 as rests, but 80 confuses me a little, since it'd be above recommended grain temps and 74 already achieves mash-out. Perhaps you can explain what that's doing for you?

I've attached a mash profile that corresponds with the temperatures you're providing.

I went with the idea that you'd probably like to stay under the denature point of enzymes for most of the mash. Hence, it is extremely tight for the protein rest, but that's ok, since proteolytic enzymes don't like too much water.

I cant attach one as I couldnt figure out how to get it to do a custom mash profile without errors - really if I knew that I wouldnt be here

Westmalle uses a 4 step prodeedure according to brew like a monk, 57 63 74 and 78ºC  I tried to recreate this without success and gave up, Im doing a 23 litre all grain brew with 68% eff.

Check out the screenshot of what happens when I try and create the profile, I ended up getting first step correct and I used boiling water to achieve next few temps if added water that beersmith told me to add using a single step mash was incorrect (and it was).  THis was done by adjusting equipment and grain temps to the temp of the prior temp I just mashed at.  So for 63 I entered that grain and equipment was 57ºC.

sorry if this is confusing.....really appreciate your help!

You are going to have to lower the first step in the amount of water added. Their is no way to raise the temp of the grain bed enough on a 23l batch when you start with 22l on the first step. It is easier to adjust the water/grain ratio. Simple example First step 1.25, second step 1.75, third step 2, fourth 2.25, until you increase the amount of volume to your batch size. If you check the mash schedule Brewfun made, it only has a ratio on .4 for the first step.

that doesnt work either, even if you drop first infusion to 8litres you can get it correct, you have a max of 36litrs for the mash.  An 8 litre first infusion is far too thick even if it let you.  The grain would take up that in its weight.

craft_brewing said:

Westmalle uses a 4 step procedure according to brew like a monk, 57 63 74 and 78ºC  I tried to recreate this without success and gave up, Im doing a 23 liter all grain brew with 68% eff.

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Ah! With that, I can tell you four very important things about the mash.
First, the critical conversion steps are 57 and 63.
Second, Westmalle uses a steam jacketed mashtun to heat the mash rather slowly, taking about 90 minutes for the first three steps.
Third, all conversion is done by the time the mash is 74 C.
Fourth, the final step is their upper mashout temperature, meant to fully denature all enzymes before sparging.

Check out the screenshot

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It's simply way too thin.

To create a new mash profile: Profiles > Mash > Add Mash

craft_brewing said:

even if you drop first infusion to 8litres you can get it correct, you have a max of 36litrs for the mash.  An 8 litre first infusion is far too thick even if it let you.  The grain would take up that in its weight.

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Taking your statement at face value, we can't go any further. Your brewing system is not capable of this process. Indeed, it would be very thick. And yes, the grain would pretty much soak it all up.

However, the moisture and heat would serve to break down some proteins and wet starches (the temperature is too low for gelatinization). If there are any proteolytic enzymes (I don't know your grist), their half life is short and they need a thick mash to stay in contact with substrate. All you need is a little finesse in mixing the mash. Maybe alternate grain and water in layers.

From the picture, your grist seems to be in the neighborhood of 8.7 kilos. From your statements, the mash tun is 36 liters.

Dough In: 8 l @ 70 C rests at 57 C. Hold for 20 min.
2nd infusion: 3.3 l @ 87 C lands at 64 C. Hold for 40 min.
3rd infusion: 11.33 l @ 87 C lands at 74 C. Hold for 10 minutes.
Sparge at 78 C.

Assuming 10 minutes per infusion to settle the temperature (excluding dough in), you have a 90 minute total mash. The mash tun shouldn't exceed 28 liters, including grain.

The key to this is to have the second and third infusions be the same temperature, but below boiling. It's a lot closer to the sparge temperature and easier on the enzymes.