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Mashing Q: Add water to grain or vice versa?

Mofo

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Please redirect me if this has been addressed. I didn't find it via search.

In all the YouTube brewing videos I've watched (yes, I've probably seen yours) I see people adding their milled grains to an MLT already filled with hot water. But in his book, Palmer specifically says to add water to the grain, "not the other way around". So which is it? I know it works both ways because I've done it both ways, but is one method preferable to the other? Why?

I'm brewing 5 gal batches.

Thanks for your help!
 
I add grain to water a couple pounds at a time so I can stir and get rid of any large clumps as I go.
 
I also add the grain to the water for the same reason: less clumping and better mashing of the few clumps that do occur.

Steve
 
I put the grain in the mash pot and then add the water. No special reason, but it works for me. I do not have an issue with clumps, etc. I do add water about a third at a time and stir.
 
I add the grain to the water.  My reason is so that I can take the specific heat of the mash tun out of the equation.  I measure the grain temperature.  Then I heat the strike water up to about 6 F above my strike temperature target.  I put that in my mash tun and stir until my temperature drops to my actual strike temp.  The mash tun usually takes about 4 F out of the water right away, so I only have to stir for a few minutes, until it drops the last few degrees.  I add the grain and I'm at my target mash temperature dead on, each and every time.

When I put the grain in first and then let Beersmith figure out my strike temperature based on my initial grain temp and initial mash tun temperature, I had a range of plus or minus 1 to 2 F on my actual mash temp achieved.

So, for me, water first, stir until my water drops to strike temp.  Add grain and stir until all clumps are broken up and well mixed and I'm always right on my mash temperature.
 
Scott Ickes said:
When I put the grain in first and then let Beersmith figure out my strike temperature based on my initial grain temp and initial mash tun temperature, I had a range of plus or minus 1 to 2 F on my actual mash temp achieved.

So I'm assuming BeerSmith's temperature calculations are based on adding water to grain?

I agree @Scott Ickes that going grain into water seems to offer more control. I'm able to more quickly stir out dough balls and get the lid on the MTL to retain my temp.
 
Mofo said:
Scott Ickes said:
When I put the grain in first and then let Beersmith figure out my strike temperature based on my initial grain temp and initial mash tun temperature, I had a range of plus or minus 1 to 2 F on my actual mash temp achieved.

So I'm assuming BeerSmith's temperature calculations are based on adding water to grain?

Actually, BeerSmith is designed flexibly enough to do the calculations either way. 

Option 1: (which I now use)
In my equipment profile, I've set my mash tun specific heat to '0'.  This is telling Beersmith not to calculate any heat loss due to the temperature of my mash tun.  Thus, when I take my actual grain temperature, Beersmith will tell me what temperature to have my strike water at "in my mash tun", to hit my  desired mash temperature when I mix my grain into the water.

Option 2: (which I tried for about the first six to eight all grain batches)
However, if you want to put the grain in first, you need to know the specific heat of the mash tun, it's weight and the actual temperatures of your grain and mash tun, prior to adding water.  With all of this information Beersmith will tell you what temperature to have your strike water at when you add it to the grain in your mash tun, in order to hit your desired mash temperature.  Once you get this dialed in, you can get pretty close on your mash temperature. 

When I started all grain, I tried to use option 2, but found that I just couldn't get it dialed in close enough.  I was always off a few degrees and was either adding cold or hot water to get to my desired mash temperature.  Once I went to Option 2, I was hitting my mash temperature every time, without having to add hot or cold water.
 
I'm with Scott.  I've written about it many times. It takes a long time for the heat to equalize into the tun.  It's much easier to add hot water alone to the tun and let the temp stabilize to strike temp.  Then add the grain to the water. 

This way makes it dead simple to hit mash temps, every time. 
 
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