BeerSmith Mash Eff. versus Total Eff. Question

Morning All.

I've got a software issue on total mash efficiency %, and mash efficiency after mashing.

I have my Total Efficiency set to a default of 65%

After mash out and sparge I use my refac to check my pre-boil conversion.

I will generally hit 8 - 15% below my pre-boil mash efficiency target.

Now, mine you, I will generally make-up that 8-15% through the boil and I will hit my Total Efficiency or go over/under 1-2 points.


Here is the question, I consistency will not hit the pre-boil mash target BeerSmith sets for each recipe I build.

I have lowered the total efficiency target to as low as 55%.

I have increased the tun deadspace from 1/2 gal. to 3/4 gal.

I have increased my mash from 60 - 75, to 90 minutes.  I am losing, on average, 3.5 degrees with a 90 minute mash.

I set my mill to crack, solid crush grain, and to not "flour".  But I have trying to get a heavy crush to, but that just increases my laugering process.


I'm lost...I feel that I have done everything I can to get my Pre-Boil eff. on target, yet I continue to come up short.

Here is the grain bill I had last night, and with a 90 minute Mash @ 150, our Target pre boil was 55%.  We hit 36.2% pre-boil:

(all grain)
Maris Otter (base)    47%
Stout Malt (base)      25%
Biscuit Malt              14%
White Wheat            6.8%
Crystal L55              3.4%
Crystal L120            1.0%
Carapils                  2.8%
Gypsum.....3gram (just for this batch)
Mash pH was @ 5.2


Any serious help to this issue would be greatly appreciated. I'm not a beginner at this.  I've been brewing for 4 years now. Our beer is still really good.  Hell, it's good enough to get into GABF Pro-Am this year.

I feel that not hitting that pre-boil eff. I am uncutting the maltness that I am trying to produce. 

Is anyone else having this problem?

Does that pre-boil eff in Beersmith give false brenchmark numbers?

Also, my wife feel that because we are in Colorado, and the altitude is so high, that might possibly throw off my numbers/conversion and that something might need to be done on the backend of the software.  I don't know about that, but I'm bringing everything to the table on this. 

I'm so lost on this I'm about to scrape my mash tun and burners, and throw a ton of money to electric system, or RIMS so that my efficiency will be higher or atleast consistently hit my preboil efficiency.

Thanks in advance for the advice or hopefully a solution.

Tim.

I am a little confused on your terminology. There is no Pre Boil eff.

There is:
Tot Efficiency
Est Mash Eff
Measured Mash Eff


Perhaps you could export the recipe file and post it here?

As suggested, if you could export a recipe that includes your actual measurements, that'd help us troubleshoot more quickly. In the recipe window, highlight the recipe, then click "export sel" and post it here.

Let's define the difference between mash efficiency and brewhouse (total) efficiency.

Preboil numbers are based on mash efficiency. simple enough....

The expected gravity and volume for your batch size are brewhouse efficiency. In other words; "of the total sugars available from the grain, what percentage make it to the fermenter?"

The efficiency number you enter into your equipment profile is brewhouse. This is the net amount of sugar you have after all losses: equipment, mash, trub, chiller and anything else that retains wort.

The more loss to trub/chiller you enter, the higher the mash efficiency will go. Since brewhouse efficiency the total percentage of sugar in the fermenter, the only place to make up the sugar in the loss is with mash efficiency. Make sure this number is accurate.

Low preboil numbers are a factor of mash efficiency and volume collected in the kettle. Are you saying you have an accurate volume compared to BS, but the gravity is low? If so, are you ending up with a lower than expected volume at the end of the boil? If so, then those volumes need to be adjusted via the boiloff rate in BeerSmith to match your observations.