ONE BARREL EB RIG

New to the industry and trying to get all the insight I can. Just finished testing my Electric Brewery rig in the 55 gal G2 kettles offered by Blichmann. I purchased BEERSMITH as the accompanying software to get things running. Never used software and have limited experience with designing batches from the ground up. Looking to the seasoned vets to offer some fire to my humble pile of twigs with hopes to catch ignition. I intend on running the "brew day" sample batch posted by KAL on the EB website. A nice walkthru. My intentions are to get BEERSMITH tuned to my system and am looking for any advice, tips, or tricks that will help me on my way to getting there. I do not refer to myself as a total NOOB having done a batch on a handmade rig that i spent many months getting up and running. This is a new animal and a completely different approach to brewing than I have ever taken. Again, just looking to the brewgods for a little direction.

bowiejunk said:

New to the industry and trying to get all the insight I can.

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Is this a commercial rig that you're going into business with?

Just finished testing my Electric Brewery rig in the 55 gal G2 kettles offered by Blichmann. ... I intend on running the "brew day" sample batch posted by KAL on the EB website. A nice walkthru.

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Did the testing include a water batch? I'd recommend one before making a beer, simply to shakedown the system, find leaks, measure volumes and temperatures and generally think about how you want to operate the system under brewing conditions. It's a lot easier to keep focused when you're just spilling some water instead of wort.

After that, yes, make a super basic recipe that has a very predictable flavor profile. I have an easy POP (Plain Ol' Pale) that I've used on every system for 15 years.

My intentions are to get BEERSMITH tuned to my system and am looking for any advice, tips, or tricks that will help me on my way to getting there.

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Again, starting with that water batch and recording volumes under false bottoms, untransfered water, expansion volume, flow rates, boiloff, heat rise times and basically every other part of the brewing process will really help you nail the BeerSmith profile and your intended yield.

You'd make the same measurements all over again with the real beer, just to verify your results and see any variations.

For the first batch or two, I'd recommend focusing on the batch size in the kettle, rather than starting off with a "Losst to Trub and Chiller" number. Mash efficiency and Brewhouse Efficiency are intertwined, but very different measurements. With the loss number set to zero, all you have to focus on is mash efficiency.

Is this a commercial rig that you're going into business with? YES SIR, MY INTENTIONS INDEED!

Did the testing include a water batch: AGAIN, YES. I JUST FINISHED LEAK TESTING AND VOLUME TRANSFER/RECIRCULATION/HEATING/COOLING.

After that, yes, make a super basic recipe: VERY SIMPLE GERMAN BLONDE ALE/LAGER.

Again, starting WITH basically every part of the brewing process will really help you nail the BeerSmith profile and your intended yield: THIS IS GREAT INFO, KEEP IT COMING!!

You'd make the same measurements all over again with the real beer, just to verify your results and see any variations: COPY THAT

For the first batch or two, I'd recommend focusing on the batch size in the kettle, rather than starting off with a "Losst to Trub and Chiller" number. Mash efficiency and Brewhouse Efficiency are intertwined, but very different measurements. With the loss number set to zero, all you have to focus on is mash efficiency: ROGER. I FEEL LIKE I NEED TO CUT HEATING TIMES DOWN BEFORE I CAN EXPECT THIS SYSTEM TO PRODUCE LIKE I EXPECT. IN THE BETA PHASE I FULLY EXPECT TIMES TO BE ALL SORTS OF OFF AND A SHARP LEARNING CURVE TO ENSUE. I LEARN FAST AND HAVE A VERY BASIC EDUCATION ON MICROBIO, CHEMISTRY. THESE THINGS WILL IM SURE HELP BUT THERE ARE SO MANY VARIABLES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHT AND I WILL SOON BE A FREQUENT FLYER HERE ON THE BEERSMITH FORUM!!!

JUSTIN

I KNOW IM TOLD THAT NO QUESTION IS STUPID, BUT I FEEL DUMB ON THIS ONE:

Is boil-off rate volume dependent? As in, will 5 gallons have the same loss rates as 50 gallons? ???

Check the equipment set up thread at the top of the All Grain/Advanced section.

bowiejunk said:

Is this a commercial rig that you're going into business with? YES SIR, MY INTENTIONS INDEED!

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Ah. Good Luck. Are you going through licensing? Tasting room rather than distribution business model?

bowiejunk said:

I KNOW IM TOLD THAT NO QUESTION IS STUPID, BUT I FEEL DUMB ON THIS ONE:

Is boil-off rate volume dependent? As in, will 5 gallons have the same loss rates as 50 gallons? ???

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...No need to yell. I'm right here. 

Nope. Boiloff is dependent on heat transfer, surface area, ambient temperature and relative humidity. Homebrewers tend to get 12 to 14% per hour boiloff, where commercial brewers are typically under 10%. Mine is about 5%, but that still equates to about 30 gallons an hour.

Larger pro rigs have a forced air vent with a condensate slope and a condensate capture ring to divert water from falling back into the kettle. This eliminates issues with ambient air temp and humidity and amplifies the surface area.

sorry about the caps  :-[

Homebrewers tend to get 12 to 14% per hour boiloff.

Can I assume that this will be my approximate boiloff on my set up. I know the other variables will factor in, but is it safe to use a value of 13% without measuring. And to measure, again stupid question, am I just boiling some wort/water and doing old school observation and documentation?

and as far as heat transfer... I intend to upgrade the rig with more elements. as in 3 more. will this increase the boiloff rate? im not grasping how it would considering boiling water is maintained at one temp, right? surface area I get. Greater circumference of the kettle more water exposed to atmosphere, more evaporation potential. Check. How about ambient temp and humidity. Greater temp/Lower humidity = Increase and vice versa?

can you give me a primer on how to quote a message?

[?quote author=bowiejunk link=topic=12576.msg50446#msg50446 date=1420413132]

can you give me a primer on how to quote a message?  [?quote]

Hit the Quote button (off to the right of subject line), delete what is not needed, and leave the [quote.......] and [/quote]  code untouched.  I edited it so you could see it. 

bowiejunk said:

Can I assume that this will be my approximate boiloff on my set up. I know the other variables will factor in, but is it safe to use a value of 13% without measuring. And to measure, again stupid question, am I just boiling some wort/water and doing old school observation and documentation?

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With a water batch, you can fill the kettle to 80% capacity or so (you'll need the headroom for hot break foaming, later) and boil for an hour. Measure pre and post boil volumes. That's your hourly boiloff rate.

and as far as heat transfer... I intend to upgrade the rig with more elements. as in 3 more. will this increase the boiloff rate?

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Yes it will. It isn't just temperature, it the excess BTU's needed to create steam. Aside from the energy needed to get to boiling, it takes about 1000 BTUs to create 1 pound of steam. So, the faster you can add those BTUs, the more evaporation you'll have. The higher the sugar content, the more energy is needed to separate the water into steam (between 20 and 150 BTU). Though, add too much, too fast, you get scorching and boilovers.

so here is my dilemma... i have a 55 gallon rig, I intend to brew a barrel back to back. is (4) 5500 watt elements too much power for my boil kettle. i know for the HLT there is no such concept. im not an engineer and am not the best at (fears looking real dumb) math. the further i go the more i realize this whole process is completely dependent on equation. im looking for advice from the brew gods to guide my way... please advise.