Author Topic: Thoughts on carrying boil additions over to the steep/whirlpool?  (Read 3929 times)

Offline Teekay92

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For an accurate IBU calculation, should I carry-over/duplicate the hops added during the boil as steep/whirlpool additions? I can't find a clear answer and am wondering if it is something I should be taking in to consideration before my next brew day, or if I am just nitpicking.


For example:
0.50 oz Warrior - Boil 60 min.
0.25 oz Cascade - Boil 10 min.
0.25 oz Cascade - Boil 5 min.

0.50 oz Warrior - Steep/Whirlpool 15 min. (boil addition carried over to steep/whirlpool)
0.50 oz Cascade - Steep/Whirlpool 15 min. (boil addition carried over to steep/whirlpool)
0.50 oz Centennial - Steep/Whirlpool 15 min. (new addition)


Cheers.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 01:40:22 PM by Teekay92 »

Offline Oginme

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Re: Thoughts on carrying boil additions over to the steep/whirlpool?
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2015, 05:27:12 AM »
There is no real right or wrong answer.  It all depends upon the flavors you want in the finished beer.  I get a lasting aroma and strong flavors from whirlpool additions, so I look to replicate the same flavors as some of the later additions.  This may mean using the same hops or different but complementary hops.
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Offline Teekay92

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Re: Thoughts on carrying boil additions over to the steep/whirlpool?
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2015, 01:45:46 PM »
There is no real right or wrong answer.  It all depends upon the flavors you want in the finished beer.  I get a lasting aroma and strong flavors from whirlpool additions, so I look to replicate the same flavors as some of the later additions.  This may mean using the same hops or different but complementary hops.

Appologies, my question wasn't clear.

What I am questioning is if I should be carrying-over/duplicating additions made during the boil to the whirlpool/steep for an accurate IBU calculation. If the hops remain in the kettle at flame out, they must still be contributing something to the wort along with any new hops that may be added.

Offline Oginme

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Re: Thoughts on carrying boil additions over to the steep/whirlpool?
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2015, 02:17:05 PM »
Ah, I see.  I don't figure anything different when doing the whirlpool additions as far as the amount of time for the boil hop utilization.  I do feel that it contributes to some additional bitterness, but since I don't measure the IBU and the calculations are pretty much a SWAG anyway, I let it fly.  If it contributes an additional 5 to 10 IBU of bitterness, it is well within the error band I expect.
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Offline brewfun

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Re: Thoughts on carrying boil additions over to the steep/whirlpool?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2015, 07:47:24 AM »
an accurate IBU calculation.

This is a level of accuracy that doesn't actually exist at the homebrew level. So, the carryover IBU contribution is just pseudo-accuracy, even at the pro brewer level.

They count most at lower levels (<50) because 5 IBUs can mean a shift in buttering perception. Then again, the type of hop you choose can have an even bigger impact because of the texture of the bitterness it imparts. Some hops are just coarser than others.

Isomers are hydrophobic, meaning they look for any opportunity to come out of suspension. Hops are foam positive (enhancing) because they come out of the beer to help form the bubble. They also get absorbed by yeast (some strains absorb more than others) end up on the walls of your equipment and are influenced by boil geometry.

Part of the magic of highly hopped beers, like DIPA, is that bitterness is saturated fairly early on. At that point, the boil destroys as many isomers as it creates, but then create flavonoids by bonding with malt compounds. Some yeast strains enhance hop flavors by glycolysis of the hop compounds.

So, even though various IBU calculations try to model what would be measured in a lab, there are limits to their accuracy above 50 to 60 IBU. In the end, it's all about beer flavor and balance, which is what brewer skill is all about.
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Offline Oginme

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Re: Thoughts on carrying boil additions over to the steep/whirlpool?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2015, 08:47:56 AM »
Good addition, BrewFun.  One of the things I should have added is that any of the bitterness models that are available are based upon someone else's system and process.  The relationship of those model results to your system and process can be very questionable.  I highly recommend brewing a couple of recipes where you have some commercial beers of the same style and IBU content to compare them to.  Use this taste feedback to adjust your expectations of bitterness calculated by the model of your choice and design or adjust your recipes accordingly.
 
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