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how often to stir the mash, how slow to sparge, and starting boil

martinc

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Hello,

I recently put together a two cooler system as a jump from partial mash brewing.  I have a 10 gal MT and 5 gal HLT that gravity feed into my 20 gal kettle.

Once I mix my grain into the MT, should I stir it at any point in the 60 minute conversion or let it sit?

As I feed the 170' water from the HLT to the MT, is there a flow rate that I should shoot for?  I assume that I want to keep the flow the same going out of the MT to kettle as the HLT to the MT, correct?

In some cases I see 200' water called for to jump the MT temp to 170.  Can I forego this step since I have 170' in my HTL and will be boiling soon.

Also, once I have some liquid in the kettle, can I start the flame as I'm filling to keep things moving forward?


Thanks

Martin
 
All great questions!  Here's what I do, which is hopefully close to the "correct" method  :p

-I do not stir during the 60 minute rest.  I keep the lid closed so temp doesn't drop as much.  Once time is up I take temp in the middle and at the perimeter of the MT.  Typically I lose a degree or less in the center, a touch more at the perimeter.

-When I started all grain I shot for a gallon every 10 minutes.  With a 10 gallon batch, roughly 12 gallons pre-boil, this took about 2 hours.  Now I shoot for a gallon every 5-7 minutes and haven't seen a drop in efficiency.

-This step, bumping the mash temp up to 170, sounds like it's a "mash out".  Feel free to skip it, I usually do.

-Yes.  I put the BK on heat as soon as possible so the time between an empty MT and a rolling boil is shortened.
 
The Sparging flow rate I usually aim for is the same as the runnings output rate. This varies with different batches depending on the grain crush  grain content, type of false bottom or bazooka screen.  After recirculating the runnings until clear, try to visually match your flow of hot water into the mash tun to the output . As long as there is an inch or two of water  on top of the mash. Keep an eye on it so it doesn't overflow if you put water in too fast. Lately I find very little difference when you sparge faster than slower, maybe losing a few points on efficiency if the sparge goes very fast.  I like to mash out to 168 by adding heat and stirring since I use a stainless pot. I stir gently several times throughout the mash to ensure even temperature throughout the mash.  I finish the  sparge/lauter in about 75  minutes for a 12 gallon batch unless I get a stuck mash .
I have a 10 gallon stainless steel mash tun with a 12" bazooka screen on bottom, 3/8" outlet.

If you crush too fine and /or use flaked corn, wheat or other adjuncts; the runnings can slow to a mere dribble (stuck mash). No big deal. At that point I stop the outlet to the boil kettle, and stir the whole thing up again scraping the screen . Some  sparge water introduced at the bottom to sort of backflush the screen helps to unset the mash ( with  a brew pump). Then start again, recirculating until clear first. CHEERS! have fun
 
I agree with all of the above.  I've never done a fly sparge though.  I do batch sparging.

I noticed though, in your original post, you did not specifically say that you fly sparge.  You only stated that you would use a "Hot Liquor Tank" to put sparge water into you Mash Tun, while slowly draining wort out.  Do you "fly sparge" or do you "batch sparge"?  I'll go into the differences for those reading through this that don't know the differences.

Do you have a fly sparge arm that sprinkles the hot sparge water evenly over your Mash?  If yes, then this is "fly sparging".  If you don't, then basically, you're doing a kind of continuous batch sparge.

To take advantage of the increased efficiency potential of "fly sparing", two pieces of equipment are required.
  • You need a "fly sparge arm", (as mentioned above), to sprinkle the sparge water evenly over the top of the grain bed.
  • You need some type of system at the bottom of the mash tun that will drain the wort out evenly from the entire bottom of the mash tun.

I've posted two photos of ways to drain from the bottom. 

One is a series of interconnected copper tubing that will drain evenly over the entire bottom of the mash tun.  These can be made for "round" cooler mash tuns, just as easily.  This is the type of set up you would use for fly sparging.  It can also be used for batch sparging.

The other photo is of a bazooka screen.  This won't drain evenly over the entire bottom of the mash tun, which will leave some sugars in the grain at the sides.  If you use this, with a fly sparge arm, you probably won't get much of an increase in efficiency from the fly sparging.  The reason you'll won't get much increase in efficiency (and can sometimes even get a drop in efficiency), is because when you sprinkle the water over the tap, but drain from a single area of the bottom, the water will tend to channel straight down to the bazooka screen and most of the sparge water won't filter through all of the grain bed.  The rest of the grain bed only drains out at the very end, thus leaving a lot of sugar behind in the grain.

The last photo is a "fly sparge arm".  Notice how it sprinkles the hot water over the entire grain bed.

The secret to fly sparging is evenly added hot water to the entire grain bed and evenly drained wort from the entire grain bed.  All of my friends that fly sparge state that you want to drain it as slowly as you can stand to drain it, when fly sparging.

As far as "batch sparging" is concerned, my procedure is described in detail on my blog site here. >>>>  https://creativebrewing.wordpress.com/brewing-articles/all-grain-my-mashing-process/

I've found that the things that helps me get the best efficiency from my batch sparging are:
  • Good grain crush!  All grains crushed, so that the insides of each grain are exposed.  But not so finely crushed as to make powder.
  • Recirculation!!  Slow, slow, slow recirculation I've found is key for me.  If I rush lautering too much and don't recirculate enough, then my efficiency can drop by as much as 10%!!!!!  I try to run about 2.5 to 3 gallons of lauter back through the system, before draining.
  • Others mentioned mash out temperature.  For me, I get about a 3% boost in efficiency when I raise the temperature of the mash up to 168F, before lautering and draining.  Which makes sense when you think about it.  Sugar dissolves more readily in hotter water, than it does in colder water, so it stands to reason that the wort will be a little higher in sugar concentration at this higher temperature.  The way that I raise my mash temperature is explained in the above link to my all grain mashing process.

I hope that you found this helpful.  Please ask any further questions you might have.  We'd be glad to assist further.
 

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Great input from Scott, for sure.

Personally I don't have a sparge arm but do a halfast fly sparge.  This is because I don't have a pump, second burner, or a tiered gravity system.  I basically take a couple quarts of sparge water out of the HLT at a time and sprinkle it on top of the MT using my stainless spoon to be as gentle as possible.  The only reason I mention this method is that Scott said "required" and I'm getting away without it.  You stated you had a gravity system, though, so kudos... you've got one up on me.

I'll have to try recirculating for longer next batch... I only do .5-1 gallon.  Good looking out, Scott.
 
Thanks for the input!  Sounds like I'm on track but may be sparking too quickly.
I suppose it's a fly sparge system.  I set up the little upside-down sprinkler that spreads the water out.  This could be much better but it was pretty easy to build with the $3 piece and some found objects.
I do have a false bottom on my 10 gallon cooler.  I seems to drain slowly but I can't say its become stuck.

I'll take some photos on the next brew day to attach to my next set of questions

The latest Pliny Clone actually tastes pretty close to the real deal.  Close but not spot on.
Racer 5 and a red ale are fermenting now.  It's fun stuff.
 
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