Sparge water amount.

Ok this is my first all grain attempt and I have a question about the sparge water amount that I have been given by beersmith. I am doing a thin mash with 3.1 litres (.81 G) per 450 grams (1lb)of grain  I am told to mash in with 16.66 litres (4.40G) then mash out with 8.37 (2.21G) and my sparge water amount is 3.75 (1G) This is for a boil volume of 23litres (6G) And an APA
So my question is ... 3.75 litres seems like very little water to sparge with ???? and is it worth making the mash a little thicker or is that amount of sparge water ok/normal ?

Thanks for any advise.

Sorry for the unit disparity here - although I am also new to brewing I usually use about 1.25 qts of water per lb of grain.  This would be more like .3 G per lb.  this would bring down your initial water volume and also reduce your sparge amt too since you won't need as much water to heat to mash out temps - hope this helps

That does seem like a low volume of sparge water.  I typically don't mash out, so all that volume would transfer over to sparge water. 

What temp is your mash out water?  An option, if you're set on mashing out, would be to bump up the temp of that water, which would then require less volume to hit your mashout temp.

In any case, you'll be fine, I just think there's an opportunity to get slightly higher efficiency by making sure you rinse the grains a bit better.

Thanks for the replys .
@ jtoots...I have been playing around in the mash setup and have found a few things that have helped to improve my sparge water amount with out changing the strike water amount.
I can still mash out but now I am heating the mash up to temp instead of adding water so this has made my sparge volume bigger . My strike water amount is 16.7 litres and now by heating up to mash out my sparge water amount is 14.36 litres.  I am still fining my way around BeerSmith and how things can be changed but getting there slowly 

@ joejarboe.
                  I made a mistake myself in the numbers I posted  : I have a ratio of 3:1 litres/KG  so that works out to
.8G water to 2.2pound grain or 1.5 quarts to 1pound ..Roughly I think  please correct me if I am wrong. I am mashing on the thin side for my first attempt. my mash temp is 67c or 152f and I plan on a mash time of 75min

You don't have to use all the sparge water. If you don't think it is enough, heat more.  Then use what you need to reach your desired pre-boil volume. If the software is right on, then you'll have water leftover.  But it won't do any harm to heat extra.

Try decoction for mashing out. That way you don't add any water. It's easy, though I don't know how to put it into the software. Just remove a third of the mash once conversion is complete, bring it to a full boil, then mix it back in. Assuming you are near sea level and your mash is near 150, it should register between 165 and 170 after recombining.

Maine Homebrewer said:

Try decoction for mashing out. That way you don't add any water. It's easy, though I don't know how to put it into the software. Just remove a third of the mash once conversion is complete, bring it to a full boil, then mix it back in. Assuming you are near sea level and your mash is near 150, it should register between 165 and 170 after recombining.

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+1 with this. In some cases it can help with efficiency. Beersmith has a decoction profile built in. It will tell you exact amount of the mash to decoct based on your equipment profile.

I have figured out how to change the mash out step to a heating step so this means i do not need water for the mash out and it gives me more sparge water. Only 2 liters difference between strike water amount and sparge water amount.
I think heating up to the mash out temp is easier for me as i have a stainless mash/boil kettle than a decoction step. Would there be much difference between the two??

Thanks for the Advise

arctic78 said:

I think heating up to the mash out temp is easier for me as i have a stainless mash/boil kettle than a decoction step. Would there be much difference between the two??

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It's up for debate. I've heard some say the mash out step isn't necessary. If you do decide to heat the mash up to temp, make sure you're paying attention to it as you don't want to scorch or go above 170 for your entire mash. As Maine Homebrewer said, decoction is boiling a portion of the mash. It's one thing to boil a portion and another to boil the entire batch.

I use a burner to heat up to mash out temps. It works fine. Stir well and scrape the bottom with your paddle. The decoction and infusion water additions are to get around not being able to heat up the mash tun, which is most people . Thats why you have stainless mash tun so you can heat when required. Then you can make the water amounts whatever suits you.

@ twhitaker.
                  Ok I have a couple of questions, Might be stupid but have to ask
1: how long do you take to heat up to mash out temp??? I was looking at 15min to reach mashout.
2: do you stir constantly or just every couple of minutes.
3: once at mash out temp. how long do you hold it. I was going to go for 10-15min.

Thanks

In some cases it can help with efficiency.

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Mashing out alone raised my efficiency, but decoction is the only method I have used. I have read that boiling a portion of the mash causes the grain to burst which can raise efficiency, and that the boiling causes some caramelization which adds color and flavor. Though not a lot of color, as evidenced by some commercial pilsners (Pilsner Urquel for example) using that method still being a nice straw color.

1.  It takes about 15 minutes yes, I make 12 gallon batches. I usually just stop when the temp is about 165. If my sparge water is ready (170) I let her go then as I can't heat my HLT with the sparge water in it. I heat the water in the Boil Kettle and pump it over to the HLT.  I made a few recipes without raising the temp past 152 at all. They were great. Efficiency may suffer but flavour may improve. So I just try and get it heated up close.

2. Stirring depends on how intense your flame is. Gentle . Constantly is preferred, but I stir and stop a few minutes at a time. Sometimes a bit of scorching happens on the bottom. It doesn't bother me. It may add darker colour and a nice  slight extra roasty flavour, only the lightest brews will notice an effect.

3. Mentioned earlier, I don't usually hold it. IF the sparge water isn't ready yet then yes hold it until it is.  For me once the sparge water is at temp and transferred to the HLT that's the deciding factor. You don't want to wait and take too long and your sparge water loses 30 degrees. That is the critical factor for me- sparge water at 170- 175 to allow a few degrees cooling in the sparge arm to get 168 f.  All else revolves around that.

That how I've been doing it for years and I love the way all grain brews come out. Just love it! CHEERS

Ok thanks for the run down of how you do your mash. helps me get things sorted about how I might be able to make it easier for myself. Will see how it all goes on Monday.

good luck, have fun!  It'll get much MUCH easier as you go... like clockwork.  Unless all three of your propane tanks go empty on you like my batch did last weekend  : :

Nothing like having the parents drive 3 hours to watch you finish up a brew session as the sun drops!