Author Topic: Hops in Boiler once finished Boiling  (Read 5920 times)

Offline MRMARTINSALES

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Hops in Boiler once finished Boiling
« on: March 12, 2017, 01:24:29 PM »
Hi,

I am about to embark on my first small batch brew and i have a question hops and boilers.

I have a few late hop additions in my brew and just wondered if they will have an effect on the beer once the boiler is turned off.

obviously it takes some time to cool the wort down for fermenting and as such the hops will be in the hot wort during this time.

I just wondered how commercial breweries deal with this or does it not matter once the boiler is turned off?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Offline Oginme

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Re: Hops in Boiler once finished Boiling
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2017, 02:41:38 PM »
There are two basic techniques which cover post boil hop additions.

The first is a "zero minute" or "flame out" hop addition, where the hops are added shortly after or right after the heat is turned off.  The wort is then immediately chilled down to help retain as much of the released hop oils as possible.  This method contributes much to aroma and hop flavors, not so much to bitterness.

The second is a "whirlpool" or "hop steep" which is used by a lot of brewers, both pros and home brewers.  Here the heat is turned off and the wort is stirred in the kettle to create a vortex. Hops are then added and the pot is left, either covered or uncovered, to steep for a preset time. If you have a pump, the wort can be recirculated to continue the whirlpool action, which many pros do.  Just like adding hops during the boil, you can add hops at anytime during a slow cool down or at set temperature points to get more bitterness or more hop aroma/flavors.  This gives the brewer a balance between hop aroma and flavor while still making a contribution to bitterness.

I prefer to whirlpool/steep my post boil hop additions and use this method for many hop forward recipes.  In my system by the time I get samples for gravity and testing and finish stirring up a strong vortex in the kettle the temperature of the wort is right around 200 F and allow it to steep for 20 to 30 minutes.  Many people wait or start chilling until the temperature is lower, like around 170 F before adding the hops to maximize aroma and flavor retention of the more volatile hop oils.  Several times I have also staggered whirlpool additions to have around 40 minutes of whirlpool/steep addition at the 200F and around 20 minutes at around 180F (which is about the temperature drop in 20 minutes of sitting off the heat.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 04:30:49 PM by Oginme »
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Offline MRMARTINSALES

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Re: Hops in Boiler once finished Boiling
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2017, 03:43:58 PM »
Hi,

I'm talking about he hops that I add late on.

For example I have some hops that I add in at the last 5 minutes of the boil. Obviously these hops ( along with all the others) will sit in the hot wort whilst I cool it. The quicker I cool it the less effect the hops will have surely? I'm just trying to be consistent that's all so I'm thinking what commercial do here

Offline Oginme

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Re: Hops in Boiler once finished Boiling
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2017, 04:43:46 PM »
OK,  Yes, there will be some added effect of bitterness from the added time the hops sit in the hot wort until it is chilled.  The quicker you chill down your wort, the greater the number of more volatile hop oils your will retain and fewer of the alpha acids from the later boil additions will become isomerized.

If a slow cooling is your standard process and the cooling down takes about the same time every brew you perform, then you can base line your expectation of bitterness pretty easily: you brew and determine through your tasting if the bitterness is what you want. 

In the end, the key is having a consistent process and comparing your results with your expectations.  Then adapting your hopping methods and addition rates to achieve what you want.  Much of this comes from experience and good tasting notes.

To get a good idea of the variation of bitterness from different processes, check out the Experimental Brewing podcast on IBU.  Really eye opening!  https://www.experimentalbrew.com/.  There are two podcasts which cover the topic:  'The IBU is a Lie' and 'The Bitter Truth'
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Offline jtoots

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Re: Hops in Boiler once finished Boiling
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2017, 06:34:47 AM »
In the end, the key is having a consistent process and comparing your results with your expectations.  Then adapting your hopping methods and addition rates to achieve what you want.  Much of this comes from experience and good tasting notes.

+1

Leave the hops in there, cool as quickly as conveniently possible, be consistent, and tweak from there.  FWIW I don't think it's very common (at least on the homebrew level) to pull the hops out while cooling.  I don't even get very picky when it comes to straining them as I transfer into the fermenter any more... except for whole leaf hops, I put those in a muslin bag because otherwise they clog up my hose.

Offline twhitaker

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Re: Hops in Boiler once finished Boiling
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 11:16:45 AM »
 In your beersmith recipe view you can specify hops for boil to get desired bitterness, and hops for flameout which add only aroma and wont add bitterness.  You can edit the hops in the recipe, check off boil or aroma (post boil),  return to recipe and view the the desired bitterness. I let flameout hops for aroma sit for 20 minutes while I set up cooling and  pump out of boil kettle into fermentor. Any boil of flameout hops will add bitterness so I wait until boil has stopped and cooled to 210 before flameout hops are added. This way you are sure to stay exact to the bitterness called for in recipe.
I prefer to add hops at start of boil, at 30 minutes, and at flameout; and each addition is designated as such in the recipe.
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Offline MRMARTINSALES

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Re: Hops in Boiler once finished Boiling
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 03:09:04 PM »
Thanks for the reply.

The options within beersmith are Boil / Dry Hop / Mash / First Wort Steep/Whirlpool.

If i select Steep Whirlpoo the bitterness increases ever so slightly. I am i missing something as you mention that it should not change

Offline bougie1st

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Re: Hops in Boiler once finished Boiling
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 04:33:11 PM »
In your equipment profile, there is a section for Whirlpool/Steep hop utilisation.  It makes some assumptions about IBU conversion during the whirlpool step, when the temperature is above 85C (as some isomerisation is still ongoing).  You then can adjust how long that that temperature is held.

If you are adding the whirlpool hops at a lower temperature such that there is minimal or no isomerisation occurring, then you can uncheck this box.  Alternatively, if you turn off the boiler and immediately chill, you could also uncheck this box.  Note that by checking the box, it will increase the IBU contribution of your boil hops as well, as they will still be in contact with the hot wort during whirlpool (unless you have a hop spider and immediately remove them all - rarely done).  That is why, if you had hops as boil 0 mins or whirlpool, they will have the same IBU contribution, as they are effectively the same thing

Offline Sceolme5

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Re: Hops in Boiler once finished Boiling
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2017, 01:54:40 AM »
Hey, I am also curious about that.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 06:13:54 AM by Sceolme5 »