Author Topic: Starters with White Labs Pure Pitch - Needed, or...?  (Read 6432 times)

Offline philm63

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Starters with White Labs Pure Pitch - Needed, or...?
« on: August 09, 2017, 12:34:37 PM »
Never used one of those new Pure Pitch packages from White Labs; plenty of their old vials, but it's been a while since I've brewed and I'm gearing up to start operations again, and my LHBS has only these new packages in the good ol' WLP001 I use most often for my IPAs.

Question is; do I still make a starter for, say, a 1060 or above?

Are there any on-line calculators that have jumped on this Pure Pitch bandwagon and included them in their options? YeastCalc (yeastcalculator.com) does not give me the option of selecting my yeast package so I might assume there is no difference, or any difference is small enough or perhaps a bit too vague so as to not warrant inclusion in such calculations... perhaps it is just that there is an industry standard of around 100b cells...

No?
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Offline Oginme

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Re: Starters with White Labs Pure Pitch - Needed, or...?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2017, 04:45:08 PM »
From the White Labs web site:

How much yeast is in my White Labs homebrew PurePitch?

The wording on our PurePitch? packaging - 'Made to Contain over 100 Billion Cells' - is a target cell count number for each of our yeast packages. We specifically say ?Made to Contain? because not all packages will contain more than 100 billion cells even though we target that number in our production and packaging processes. This is because of the reality of cell biology - cell sizes vary, cell packing varies, and since cells are microscopic, those small variations lead to large fluctuations in cell numbers.

Although the PurePitch? packages state a cell net volume of 40 mL, actual volumes range from 40 to 50 mL.

In our production, we allow for cell counts of 1.5 to 3.0 billion per milliliter which will produce 60 to 120 billion total cells if 40 mL. We target the high range of cell counts and fill volumes in our production and packaging processes, however as stated above, the reality of cell biology is that those numbers will vary.

We publish the QC data that includes the actual cell count of each lot on Yeastman.com. We state on Yeastman.com the allowed cell count range (1.5 to 3.0 billion per milliliter) because it accurately reflects the reality of packaging microorganisms.
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Offline mbrierley

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Re: Starters with White Labs Pure Pitch - Needed, or...?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2017, 09:00:11 AM »
based on my recent white labs experience (I've used them for years) I would recommend Wyeast or if you are making a starter, use dry yeast.

Offline Ck27

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Re: Starters with White Labs Pure Pitch - Needed, or...?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 03:28:15 PM »
You don't need a starter ive done 10 batches that have all turned out perfectly.

Offline Oginme

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Re: Starters with White Labs Pure Pitch - Needed, or...?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2017, 06:01:08 PM »
After re-reading the FAQ from White Labs, I would be more than a little concerned.  If their range is typically from 60 billion to 120 billion cells, then their process is NOT centered on 100 billion per package.  Assuming a normal distribution, they would be typically around an average of 90 billion cells per package.  Otherwise, with the range and the target, it would still skew more towards less than 100 billion cells per package. 
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Offline joeinma

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Re: Starters with White Labs Pure Pitch - Needed, or...?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 12:08:55 PM »
Short answer, yes, most likely you need a starter with White Labs pure pitch.


Long answer:

Take the lot number off the front of the pack, then go to White Labs quality control site at https://www.yeastman.com/Login/Public/Report/PublicLabQCResult.aspxake enter the lot number and select homebrew version.

It will take a few minutes to load, but when it does, you will see a cell count number like 1.56e9.    Per a discussion on HomebrewTalk, a pure pitch vial has approximately 40 ml in it.  So take the 1.56 or whatever the number is (leaving out the e9) and multiply by 40 to get the actual cell count per the day White Labs tested it.   So using this example, that pack that people are assuming has 100B cells really only has 62.4B, and that's not factoring in the age of the yeast.

And if you are using a older style tube, you would multiply the number x 35.

The last three brews I have done, three different White Labs yeasts, all three have only been in the 60 billion range.   

Offline Ck27

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Re: Starters with White Labs Pure Pitch - Needed, or...?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 05:18:13 PM »
Short answer, yes, most likely you need a starter with White Labs pure pitch.


Long answer:

Take the lot number off the front of the pack, then go to White Labs quality control site at https://www.yeastman.com/Login/Public/Report/PublicLabQCResult.aspxake enter the lot number and select homebrew version.

It will take a few minutes to load, but when it does, you will see a cell count number like 1.56e9.    Per a discussion on HomebrewTalk, a pure pitch vial has approximately 40 ml in it.  So take the 1.56 or whatever the number is (leaving out the e9) and multiply by 40 to get the actual cell count per the day White Labs tested it.   So using this example, that pack that people are assuming has 100B cells really only has 62.4B, and that's not factoring in the age of the yeast.

And if you are using a older style tube, you would multiply the number x 35.

The last three brews I have done, three different White Labs yeasts, all three have only been in the 60 billion range.

I have always pitched yeast straight out of packge into all my brews and never once had a issue. So yes starters can help but are they needed? NO