Author Topic: Beersmith vs Bru n' Water water chemistry results  (Read 5327 times)

Offline Javaslinger

  • BeerSmith Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
Beersmith vs Bru n' Water water chemistry results
« on: October 10, 2017, 02:18:50 PM »
I'm noticing a pretty big difference between Brun'water and Beersmith with regards calculating pH.  It looks to me that Brun'water takes into consideration the minerals adjustments and their impact on pH while Beersmith does not.  Can anyone confirm this?  OR tell me what the difference it?

Offline Baron Von MunchKrausen

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 163
  • Fermentation - a greater discovery than fire
Re: Beersmith vs Bru n' Water water chemistry results
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2017, 03:20:28 PM »
The Ph adjustment tool is Beersmith is quite basic.
For accurate results, use Bru'n water -  hands down. 
Outrageously Farfetched Brewery

Offline Ck27

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
  • BeerSmith's Unofficial Spam Police.... Do Not Spam
Re: Beersmith vs Bru n' Water water chemistry results
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2017, 03:46:00 PM »
The Ph adjustment tool is Beersmith is quite basic.
For accurate results, use Bru'n water -  hands down.

Yep

Offline merfizle

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 485
Re: Beersmith vs Bru n' Water water chemistry results
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 06:28:58 AM »
I prefer the Brewers Friend tool.

Mark
Primary: Lambic base for solera barrel
Kegged: Bavarian Weissbier, N. English brown, Roggenbier

KellerBrauer

  • Guest
Re: Beersmith vs Bru n' Water water chemistry results
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 06:46:18 AM »
Greetings - I have found that BS tends to over estimate the acid needed to lower the pH.  So I?ll typically add half the estimated amount, measure again after about 10 minutes, and adjust again as necessary.

Like Baron said, it?s a very basic tool.  I?m my opinion, it has a long way to go.

Regarding Bru?n Water, I find that spreadsheet to be very complicated.  Further, the instructions, while detailed, are included with a blue background making them an ink gussler when you print them.  So following the directions while bouncing from page to page is nonsense.  I sent an email to Bru?n Water asking if he could make the background a simple white or post them on line as a PDF.  That was three upgrades ago and they?re still blue.

So, my solution is to use Bru?n Water (and hope it?s set up right) for my darker brews where very little acid is needed and BS for my lighter brews using the above method for adding.

Offline Oginme

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3156
  • Goats, guitars, and a home brew; Life is good!
    • Longvu LaManchas
Re: Beersmith vs Bru n' Water water chemistry results
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2017, 08:21:30 AM »
The issue with the BeerSmith pH estimator is that it only works with the water profile tool.  Adding mineral salts, acidulated malts, acids, etc. to the recipe does not get taken into account when calculating the mash pH.  To get it to work, you need to use the water tool, make your adjustments, save it as a target profile and then add that water to the recipe.  Any further changes you make once you add the water will not be taken into account in the pH calculation.  So you need to delete the water and the mineral additions, go back to the water tool and do it all over again.  Yeah, this can get awkward at times.

I agree with KellerBrauer in that the acid recommendations and acidulated malt recommendations seem to be overstated by at least 50%. 

Once applied though, it seems to slightly overestimate the pH (using mineral additions only) by slightly less than .05 units.  Bru'n Water seems to continually be understating the pH (at least in my system, my water, and the malts I use) by almost the same value.  Since there are some considerable differences between malts and maltsters which both programs must make assumptions about, this seems to be a reasonable margin of error.
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline Ck27

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
  • BeerSmith's Unofficial Spam Police.... Do Not Spam
Re: Beersmith vs Bru n' Water water chemistry results
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2017, 08:29:24 AM »
The issue with the BeerSmith pH estimator is that it only works with the water profile tool.  Adding mineral salts, acidulated malts, acids, etc. to the recipe does not get taken into account when calculating the mash pH.  To get it to work, you need to use the water tool, make your adjustments, save it as a target profile and then add that water to the recipe.  Any further changes you make once you add the water will not be taken into account in the pH calculation.  So you need to delete the water and the mineral additions, go back to the water tool and do it all over again.  Yeah, this can get awkward at times.

I agree with KellerBrauer in that the acid recommendations and acidulated malt recommendations seem to be overstated by at least 50%. 

Once applied though, it seems to slightly overestimate the pH (using mineral additions only) by slightly less than .05 units.  Bru'n Water seems to continually be understating the pH (at least in my system, my water, and the malts I use) by almost the same value.  Since there are some considerable differences between malts and maltsters which both programs must make assumptions about, this seems to be a reasonable margin of error.

I agree with the water part of beersmith being poor but the normal brewing part is pretty accurate for me I'm usually within +4 or -4 of my suggested OG or whatnot and my abv. So it's good enough  but for water I don't use it. Most of the time I use Crystal geyser water which is right on the money with pH and everything already, it literally puts my well water to shame which has pH of 7.3 and TDS of around 270.

Offline enkamania

  • BeerSmith Master Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 54
Re: Beersmith vs Bru n' Water water chemistry results
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2017, 09:20:10 AM »
I agree that the acid additions are too high. 

 

modification