Explination of Batch Sparge with equal runnings

Sorry if this is covered somewhere already.  I looked and couldn't find it and I am a little confused. ???

If I choose a mash profile that calls for 2 equal runnings from a mash of 12 lbs of grain and BeerSmith calculates:
15 qts for mash in
1.02 gals for batch sparge round 1
3.33 gals for batch sparge round 2

does this mean that after a 60 minute mash, I would add 1.02 gallons of sparge water to the mash before running off any, then stir it all up good to mix it up, then drain it all off before adding 3.33 gals for my second running?

Thanks,
tonymaud

Tonymaud,

You got it right.  If your mash tun can hold it you look at that first batch sparge round as a mash out volume if it makes more sense but the idea is that you add the 1st batch sparge round before you drain.  Then drain then add the second round which in my opinion is very similar to adding a mash out volume then having one batch sparge round.

Personally, I always drain first then take the two batch sparge rounds and add them together and divide by two.  Then add the first round drain, add the second round drain for a total of three total runnings.  Since I've started doing it this way I've started getting efficiency in the lower 80's (plus with the purchase of the barely grinder and 5.2 ph stabilizer but that is a completely different story(thread)) 

good luck

You can have BeerSmith equalize the sparge for you automatically by putting a check in the box for "Drain the mash tun before starting to batch sparge".

I also created my own Mash profiles and added a Mash out at the end of the Saccrification rest. You may note that if you do add a Mash Out, that you may want to reduce the amount of water/grain ratio to compensate for the amount of water used.

I have attached my mash profiles to this post for your use/reference. The double infusion uses a decoction for the Mash out to compensate for the water used, and I also boil for an extra hour to add a gallon to the sparge.

Cheers
Preston

I haven't actually done an AG yet, but from what I've read I think what I would like to do is a single infusion with batch sparge of 2 equal runnings. Can I do a mash  out with that profile, or does that not give me enough water to raise the temp of the grain high enough?  Is that what your modified profile does Preston? 
What is the advantage if any of doing a mash out?
I apologize for my ignorance.  I've been reading as much as I can and it seems everyone has their own opinions and methods and I'm trying to find a balance between efficiency and simplicity.

UselessBrewing,

I tried your '(PB) Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge' profile on a sample recipe containing 10 lbs of grain.  BeerSmith instructs me to mash with 10 qts of water, mash out with 6 qts of water and sparge with 3.86gals (15.44qts) of water for a total of 7.56 gals.  The recipe was set up for a 5 gal batch and I selected 'set boil volume based on equipment', which calculated 6.41 gal.  How can that be?  Does BeerSmith not check that your mash profile produces more wort than your target boil volume? 

tonymaud said:

I think what I would like to do is a single infusion with batch sparge of 2 equal running's. Can I do a mash out with that profile

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yes

or does that not give me enough water to raise the temp of the grain high enough?  Is that what your modified profile does Preston? 

Click to expand...

Yes you can do a Mash out. The custom Mash profiles I uploaded will add this step for you.

What is the advantage if any of doing a mash out?

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Hot water will help dissolve the sugars from the grains and help with the sparge. I heard someone put like this: It is easier to dissolve sugar in hot tea than it is for ice tea. Temperatures are critical. To hot a mash out will extract off flavors.

tonymaud said:

I tried your '(PB) Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge' profile on a sample recipe containing 10 lbs of grain.  BeerSmith instructs me to mash with 10 qts of water, mash out with 6 qts of water and sparge with 3.86gals (15.44qts) of water for a total of 7.56 gals.  The recipe was set up for a 5 gal batch and I selected 'set boil volume based on equipment', which calculated 6.41 gal.  How can that be?  Does BeerSmith not check that your mash profile produces more wort than your target boil volume? 

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The simple answer is the grain absorbs water. The technical answer is this. You can expect a water absorption of about 1 pt (.125gal, most go with .1gal) per lb of grain 10 lb of grain will absorb 1-1.25 gallons of water. 7.56-6.41=1.15gallons which is within the tolerance.

Hope this helps. When do you plan on making your all grain first Batch?

Cheers
Preston

Thanks, I fudged up.  I was subtracting quarts instead of gallons.

Hope this helps. When do you plan on making your all grain first Batch?

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I just pick up a Rubbermaid 10gal beverage cooler this week.  I still need to mod that and buy a larger kettle and a propane burner.
I saw a 35qt 50,000 btu Saf-T-Fryer at Lowes http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=135977-58892-BB12182G&lpage=none and was considering that.  Any suggestions?

Useless,

How do I modify the mash profile to do what I'm suggesting in my first post on this thread?  I've tried it before but couldn't make it work.  I also see your point about lower the amount of batch sparge volume if you add a mash out step.  My way around that is to take some of the mash water at the end of the mash and heat it up to just below boiling and use it for my mash out volume.  Seems to work fairly well as far as I can tell.  I want to avoid reducing the batch sparge volumes if possible because I feel the grains get a better "rinse" with more water running over them. 

tonymaud said:

I just pick up a Rubbermaid 10gal beverage cooler this week.  I still need to mod that and buy a larger kettle and a propane burner.
I saw a 35qt 50,000 btu Saf-T-Fryer at Lowes http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=135977-58892-BB12182G&lpage=none and was considering that.  Any suggestions?

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If it were me, I would wait till after the holidays and find a closeout turkey fryer. I paid $50 for mine, I also went the automated route and found that it was more trouble than it was worth, so I bypassed it. You can get one of these and be done for $40 (http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=content&target=products/outdoors/grills/fryers&start=6&selectedSKU=0267-02367-2515), but if you can just buy the Burner ( http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=content&target=products/outdoors/grills/fryers&start=6&selectedSKU=0267-02367-2518)  and then find an old Sanke keg for $30-$50 and cut the top out of it, you will be better off in the long run.

Cheers
Preston

Wildrover said:

How do I modify the mash profile to do what I'm suggesting in my first post on this thread?  I've tried it before but couldn't make it work.  I also see your point about lower the amount of batch sparge volume if you add a mash out step.  My way around that is to take some of the mash water at the end of the mash and heat it up to just below boiling and use it for my mash out volume.  Seems to work fairly well as far as I can tell.  I want to avoid reducing the batch sparge volumes if possible because I feel the grains get a better "rinse" with more water running over them. 

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Copy a mash profile that you use on a regular basis and rename it. Example "(PB)Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge"
On the Mash Steps section, Double click the "Mash In" step. Change the Water/Grain ratio from 1.25 to 1.0. This setting will decrease the amount of water used in the sacarification rest.
click OK to save it
Click on the Add button: name it Mash Out. Use the Infusion Type, and set the Water/Grain Ratio to 1.60 (If you used 1.0 or 1.25 there would not be enough water to bring the temp up to 168). Set the Step temperature to 168 deg F or equiv C. Set the Step time  to 10 min and Rise Time 2 Min, and click Ok.
I have check marks in Batch Sparge using batches that fill 90% of mash tun, Equal size batches, and Drain the mash tun.

The only thing different for Double Infusion is instead of infusion type I used Decoction type because of the amount of water already on the grist.

Cheers
Preston

If it were me, I would wait till after the holidays and find a closeout turkey fryer. I paid $50 for mine, I also went the automated route and found that it was more trouble than it was worth, so I bypassed it. You can get one of these and be done for $40 (http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=content&target=products/outdoors/grills/fryers&start=6&selectedSKU=0267-02367-2515), but if you can just buy the Burner ( http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=content&target=products/outdoors/grills/fryers&start=6&selectedSKU=0267-02367-2518)  and then find an old Sanke keg for $30-$50 and cut the top out of it, you will be better off in the long run.

Click to expand...

I agree I would rather spend $40 than $100 but I like tha fact that the Saf-T-Fryer comes with a 35 qt kettle.  Less chance for boilover.
Where can you buy a Sanke keg and how do you get the top off?

It is a Secret I cant give out that information without sending Guido the Killer Pimp to yous hous. Go to any liquor and ask them if they will sell you an empty keg. I found two in Houston that will do it for $40. They are responsible for the deposit on the keg. Which in turn they pass on to the customer, and as long as they get their deposit back they don't care. They other way would be to buy a keg of your favorite beer and throw a party. After which time, Keep the keg. I have 3 so far.

How to cut the top off, Just stop by my house and it will take me about 2 min with my plasma cutter. There are posts on some forums detailing how this is done with different power tools.

Cheers
Preston

I hope it is not too late to comment or ask a question on this subject.
I am trying to make some sense of BeerSmith before I buy it.
I am really having some difficulty with it.
I know the terminology, brew step names, etc, really are confusing to me.
I did my first AG last week.  I have a 48qt Cooler for my mash tun.
I got most of my numbers calculated after browsing many web sites (dennybrew, brew365, etc).
I also have Palmer's book.
I am doing a 5 gallon, single infusion batch sparge.
At least that is what I think I did.
Basically what I did ... (numbers are close approximations of what I used)
Preheated the cooler, heated my strike water of 3.5 gallons to 168*.
Added to mash, stirred, temperature around 153*, let rest for 60 minutes.
Did a vorlauf, and drained the wort.
Heated up and added around 3.5 gallons for the sparge.  I let this rest for 15.
Not sure what the temperature was here, and maybe didn't have it hot enough.
Did a vorlauf and drained the wort.
I ended up with around 6.5 gallons for my  boil.

Now to BeerSmith.
I got the mash profile from Useless Brewing. Thanks, Preston!
I think I have it set up right.
I really get confused when looking at the results.  Especially the print preview.
It doesn't show the steps that I did correctly.  I am not doing a Mash Out. How do I indicated a drain or lauter? Or can I? I thought my first step was the mash infusion, followed by the lauter or drain.  Then the sparge and lauter or drain. I know the terminology is killing me!  Water amounts are all different than what I used.
Does BeerSmith allow you to do a mash & lauter or drain (60 minutes rest) and a sparge & lauter or drain (15 minutes rest) with equal amounts of water?
I have attached 3 views of BeerSmith of the recipe I am trying to set up.

I'll be the first to admit that I am confused and have a long ways to go to undertand this.
My extract brews are turning out pretty good, and I am hopeful that my first AG will be good also.  The OG is good, yeast is working, so far so good.
I would appreciate any help I can get.
I want to figure this out so I can use it.
I expect that until I can upgrade equipment to Sanke kegs, I'll have to do a batch infusion in the cooler.
If someone is willing to work with me offline, that would be cool.  I don't want to clog up the forum! 
Thanks
Bob

Quick follow-up to my last post.
I had sent an email to support @ BeerSmith and Brad responded.  Thanks Brad.
I think I have been set straight now.  I need to do what is called the mash-out before my first drain.
Like I said, I think I read too much, got confused, did what sound like the simplest way.
I'll give it a shot this coming weekend.
Now the steps that Print Preview show make some sense.  Sort of!
I can't believe how little I know!  I have been at it 8 months now and a whole lot to learn!
Thanks for putting up with my ramblings.
Bob