Grain Bill comment/suggestion for my NEIPA recipe

[mr.hopman]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted a feedback/comment/suggestion with my grainbill for my NEIPA recipe. I didn't include the hops combination in this post as I do have my own combination that I'm currently thinking of. Current Grainbill are what is locally available. Muntons Malt are available as well.

Brewers Malt Breiss (2-row) or JW Export Pilsner Malt - 46.5%
Simpsons Golden Promise - 41.9%
Thomas Fawcett Oat Malt - 8.5%
Simpson GNO - 3.1%

Targeting 6.2% abv with a color range of 4.7SRM

Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Mr.Hopman

[Oginme]

I've been studying NEIPA recipes for some time now before I brewed my own last spring.  Here are my take-aways on getting the properties of a good NEIPA:


Mouthfeel:  You need at the very least 15% oats plus wheat; preferably around 20%+ combination to get the ''juicy' mouthfeel

Haze:  Don't worry about the haze -- it will happen.  Between the proteins from the oats and wheat and the polyphenols from very early dry hopping, you will get a hazy appearance

Malts:  Some backing malt complexity is needed, but you need to be careful with too much.  Heavy caramel/crystal malts (anything over 40L) are not a good choice.  Go lightly with C-10/15/20 or Honey malt and add some complexity with Munich malt.

Hops:  (I know you say you have this covered, but for completeness here goes)  Look at the oil content when selecting you hops.  Go for hops with high levels of hop oils as these are what creates most of the lasting haze and they add to the mouthfeel of the beer.  Do one early bittering addition to between 15 and 35 IBU and reserve the rest for flame out or whirlpool additions as you want to add a lot in the late hopping.  First dry hop should be close to high krausen with a second dry hop addition planned for post active fermentation.  Do not get stingy with the dry hops!

Oxygen:  Oxygen is NOT your friend. but even more so for this style.  Post fermentation exposure to oxygen will speed up darkening of the beer, loss of aroma, and a change in flavor that leans towards metallic (at least to me).  Anything you can do to limit the exposure to oxygen when kegging or bottling will only help shelf life.

I am sure that a lot of other people have their own comments and methods for brewing this style, but this is what seemed to work for me and produced a nice flavorful beer that retained its haze through the 4 months it was in the keg before it ran totally dry. 

Edit: Clarification

[mr.hopman]

Wow..thanks for the comment @Oginme.

Should it really be a combination of oats and wheat? Can it be like all oats to get that juicy mouthfeel?

Here's what I have from what you've suggested.

Brewers Malt Breiss (2-row) or JW Export Pilsner Malt - 38.5%
Simpsons Golden Promise - 38.5%
Thomas Fawcett Oat Malt - 12.3%
Flaked Wheat - 7.7%
Simpsons Golden Naked Oats - 3.1%

Hops that I will choose depending on availability and my mood: 
Citra, Galaxy, Simcoe, Vic Sec, El Dorado, Amarillo, Nelson Sauvin, Mosaic

[Oginme]

You can certainly try all oats.  It is the oats that contribute to darkening with age and the metallic taste. 

Good selection of hops to choose from. 

[mr.hopman]

You can certainly try all oats.  It is the oats that contribute to darkening with age and the metallic taste. 

Good selection of hops to choose from.

Hi Oginme,

How are you doing with your whirlpooling? Some says they do hopstand after flameout some says at 80degC..Some at 40deg..I want to get most of the flavor (I usually do with 40degC)..Which temp would highly recommend?

Cheers,
Hopman

[Oginme]

It depends.

I generally start with my first whirlpool addition after flame out, measuring volume, taking samples for gravity and putting my immersion chiller in (not yet hooked up to water source).  I generally take my time and set the timer for 10 minutes post flame out.  The temperature of the kettle is between 195F and 190F at this point.  I space out any following additions based upon the timing to get down to a set temperature.  I've charted the temperature drop under ambient conditions several times and come up with a time v. temp reference for my system.  I use this in planning my addition times and then record the actual temperatures to make sure that the process has not deviated too much from the original data. 

I make additions based upon my previous experiences in playing around with a standard wheat recipe where I repeated it several times and moved the whirlpool hopping further from the end of boil in order to get a reference of my bitterness perception for that particular addition (there were no boil hops added).  So, if I have enough bitterness from the boil and only want aroma/hop flavor I will delay the whirlpool until the temperature is down to around 145F to 140F.

Another tip for timing:  I created a 'hop' called 'whirlpool pause' and add it to any recipe that I use whirlpool hops.  I set the time for the entire time of the whirlpool/steep from flame out to start of chilling.  This helps to space out my other whirlpool/steep additions without having to start and stop the timer within BeerSmith.

[ochiburi]

Like OGINME said - Wheat and oats - is a good mix for a NEIPA to 15-20% total grain bill, pure oats around 20% could get "sticky" in the mash.

[dtapke]

There's been several great podcasts put out by brad pretty recently about NEIPA styles. check out #166, 169, 172, and you'll get to hear some great conversations about hops and NEIPAs

as far as myself, I'll chime in and say 20-40% 50/50 oats and wheat, kettle hops for coagulation and kettle performance, then lots of hops at whirlpool. specific temps depend on what you're trying to isolate. get over 180F and you're bittering. under 170 and you're not really bittering anymore (you are, semantics) and LOTS of dry hops. in my 15g recipes i'm using a pound in dry hop.

and I can't agree with Oginme more about oxygen. Do CLOSED TRANSFERS between fermentation and kegging. even the slightest bit of O2 will turn your beautiful orange juice into brown dirty water that looks like a yeast starter. found that one out the hard way

[carguy33]

Sorry to drag this out again, but you talk of no oxygen post fermentation. What about oxygenation of the wort for yeast health? Pre-fermentation...

[Oginme]

You want to give the yeast oxygen so that they can create sterols which are used for building healthy cell walls.  Without this early addition of Oxygen, or a very significant over pitch of yeast cells, the yeast will grow weak early on in the fermentation and your fermenting wort may stall or end up with yeast-produced off-flavors.

The place to worry about Oxygen is after the wort has fermented.  The presence of the oils and proteins from the oats are especially are prone to creating darker colors an off-flavors when oxidized.

[dtapke]

pre fermentation o2 good (to a point)


post fermentation o2 bad (always)

[carguy33]

Thank you for clarifying that for me!