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What went wrong?

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Hello...

Looking for some guidance / insight into what I did incorrectly with my brew today; I brewed a White (Blonde) Stout.

I use a 5 gallon Brewer's Edge Mash & Boil system with built-in circulation pump.

According to the recipe I was using, I was to bring 20.5 quarts (5 gallons, 8 cups) of water up to 166 degrees Fahrenheit, add the grains at that temperature and then let mash at 150 degrees F for 75 minutes. I did this. During the mash process I had the pump engaged the entire 75 minutes.

Next step says to sparge at 168 degrees F with 3.79 gallons of water. I did this. After the 3.79 gallons of water was added, and it drained through the grains, I let the pump circulate the unboiled wort through the grains for an additional 30 minutes. 

At this point my mash & boil container is filled nearly to the top. I brought the temperature up to 214 degrees F and let it boil for an hour, with the pump running for temperature consistency. After the boil was done I had so much wort I literally had to use a 2nd fermentation bucket to hold all of it. This seems wrong. And I think it is reflected in the my OG reading. Expected was 1.072, Actual was 1.041.

Thoughts? Comments? More information needed?

Any and all feedback will be much appreciated.

Marty



 
How did you arrive at your volumes?  Are you using an equipment profile which you have customized for your process? 

You added 5.25 gallons up front and then sparged with 3.79 gallons for a total of 9.04 gallons in.  What was your preboil volume and how much did you end up with in the fermenter? Was there any trub left in the M&B?
 
Oginme said:
How did you arrive at your volumes?  Are you using an equipment profile which you have customized for your process? 

You added 5.25 gallons up front and then sparged with 3.79 gallons for a total of 9.04 gallons in.  What was your preboil volume and how much did you end up with in the fermenter? Was there any trub left in the M&B?

The recipe I used was provided to me by one of the brewers at my local brewery, which he created in his copy of BeerSmith3. He knows my equip profile and has it set up as one of the profiles in his system. He has helped me create recipes before.

Preboil volume was ~9 gallons. I ended up with just under 9 gallons across 2 fermenters. Trub was quite minimal.
 
mpstockdale_greatbeers said:
The recipe I used was provided to me by one of the brewers at my local brewery, which he created in his copy of BeerSmith3. He knows my equip profile and has it set up as one of the profiles in his system. He has helped me create recipes before.

Preboil volume was ~9 gallons. I ended up with just under 9 gallons across 2 fermenters. Trub was quite minimal.

Something does not make sense then.  Unless this is an extract recipe, you will have some volume loss in grain absorption.  Likewise, how long did you boil the wort?  If you started with 9 gallons pre-boil at mash temperatures, you would have approximately 8.8 gallons at room temperature.  It points to your volume measurements are not very accurate.

I would recommend that you take good measurements of your volumes throughout the process and your gravity readings, pre-boil and into the fermenter.  From these values, you can calculate for yourself what your process losses (grain absorption, boil off rate, trub volume) and your efficiency from the gravity readings to get your profile adjusted to accurately reflect your process.

 
It is always recommended that you customize an equipment profile to match your system. Two people can both have the Mash and Boil rig and each will experience different results so just accepting the profiles that come with Beersmith is hit or miss as to how well they will work for you. Even Brad Smith who created Beersmith cautions that you should only use the default profiles as starting points for you to create your own personalized profile. Creating these profiles involves you taking accurate measurements of all the volumes that go into and out of your brewing process. I can't imagine letting someone else create a recipe for your system working out any better than random guessing.

The Mash and Boil has etched volume marks inside the vessel. Do not assume these are correct. Find a container big enough to hold one gallon. To make sure you have one gallon fill the container while it sits on a scale. One gallon of water weighs 8.43 gallons or 3.785 kilograms. Fill the Mash and Boil in one gallon increments and verify the markings. They are probably off so to make things easier for filling in the future make yourself a marking stick at the same time you are verifying the M&B markings. Oginme has posted a series of posts outlining how to create a custom profile. In it, he has also included a very good method of making such a marking stick. http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,20873.msg74582.html#msg74582

Finally, there are a couple of steps I think you can eliminate to save both time and wear-and-tear on your equipment... To sparge you only need to pull the basket, set it on the rests near the top of the kettle and pour your sparge water over top. There is no need to run the recirculation pump for another 30 minutes. Similarly, you do not need to use the recirculation pump during the boil.

Good luck
 
Kevin58 said:
Similarly, you do not need to use the recirculation pump during the boil.

I agree with Kevin58.

If the pump is a self lubricating type,  you may actually be doing damage to the pump by using it with boiling water.  The steam flash will cause the self-lubricated parts to run dry and cause additional wear.

 
Oginme said:
mpstockdale_greatbeers said:
The recipe I used was provided to me by one of the brewers at my local brewery, which he created in his copy of BeerSmith3. He knows my equip profile and has it set up as one of the profiles in his system. He has helped me create recipes before.

Preboil volume was ~9 gallons. I ended up with just under 9 gallons across 2 fermenters. Trub was quite minimal.

Something does not make sense then.  Unless this is an extract recipe, you will have some volume loss in grain absorption.  Likewise, how long did you boil the wort?  If you started with 9 gallons pre-boil at mash temperatures, you would have approximately 8.8 gallons at room temperature.  It points to your volume measurements are not very accurate.

I would recommend that you take good measurements of your volumes throughout the process and your gravity readings, pre-boil and into the fermenter.  From these values, you can calculate for yourself what your process losses (grain absorption, boil off rate, trub volume) and your efficiency from the gravity readings to get your profile adjusted to accurately reflect your process.

I use 1 gallon jugs of Publix Spring water. So unless Publix is mislabeling the quantity of water in their one gallon jugs I should be fine. I use this for both the mah and the sparge. Recipe called for precise measurements of water, which I followed exactly.

I boiled the wort of 1 hour. Actually, maybe a few minutes longer. This is why I am a bit perplexed.
 
Kevin58 said:
It is always recommended that you customize an equipment profile to match your system. Two people can both have the Mash and Boil rig and each will experience different results so just accepting the profiles that come with Beersmith is hit or miss as to how well they will work for you. Even Brad Smith who created Beersmith cautions that you should only use the default profiles as starting points for you to create your own personalized profile. Creating these profiles involves you taking accurate measurements of all the volumes that go into and out of your brewing process. I can't imagine letting someone else create a recipe for your system working out any better than random guessing.

The Mash and Boil has etched volume marks inside the vessel. Do not assume these are correct. Find a container big enough to hold one gallon. To make sure you have one gallon fill the container while it sits on a scale. One gallon of water weighs 8.43 gallons or 3.785 kilograms. Fill the Mash and Boil in one gallon increments and verify the markings. They are probably off so to make things easier for filling in the future make yourself a marking stick at the same time you are verifying the M&B markings. Oginme has posted a series of posts outlining how to create a custom profile. In it, he has also included a very good method of making such a marking stick. http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,20873.msg74582.html#msg74582

Finally, there are a couple of steps I think you can eliminate to save both time and wear-and-tear on your equipment... To sparge you only need to pull the basket, set it on the rests near the top of the kettle and pour your sparge water over top. There is no need to run the recirculation pump for another 30 minutes. Similarly, you do not need to use the recirculation pump during the boil.

Good luck

My brewer actually created my mash & boil profile in his system so when we create a recipe he is using my system as his guide. So he's not using his profile and then guessing at what should work for me. However, I will say we have not used my system together and actually filled it up to see if the measurements are correct. So there's an opportunity to see if things can be improved. I am going to take my system to the brewery for my next go around and do it there. Maybe he will see something that is off or I am doing wrong.

As I stated in a different response I use one gallon jugs of Publix Spring Water when I make my beer. However, I have not physically weighed the jugs to see if they are dead on balls accurate so there is another opportunity for possible improvement. I will do this next time.

Good tip on not running the pump during the sparge and boil stages. I will forgo this in future brews.
 
I use a very similar system and also use 214F as a boil setting and get about 3/4 gallon boiloff in a one hour boil. Assuming a recipe with 12 pounds of grain my total water used would be 8.4 gallons to get 5.5 gallons into the fermenter and leave ~.75 gallons of trub in the boiler.

Your recipe is calling for a total of 8.925 gallons of water and you miscalculated and added 8 cups as .5 qt. instead of 2 cups, which added an additional .375 gallon of water to your total (9.3 gal.), meaning you started with close to a gallon more than needed using volumes that match mine. If your grain  bill was less than 12 lbs. The amount of total water needed would be less.

As other answers suggested, my equipment profile very likely won't be ideal for use in your system, but the volumes should be very close. The differences being mostly the volume you transfer into your fermenter(s) and the volume you leave in the boiler vs. my volumes.

 
BOB357 said:
I use a very similar system and also use 214F as a boil setting and get about 3/4 gallon boiloff in a one hour boil. Assuming a recipe with 12 pounds of grain my total water used would be 8.4 gallons to get 5.5 gallons into the fermenter and leave ~.75 gallons of trub in the boiler.

Your recipe is calling for a total of 8.925 gallons of water and you miscalculated and added 8 cups as .5 qt. instead of 2 cups, which added an additional .375 gallon of water to your total (9.3 gal.), meaning you started with close to a gallon more than needed using volumes that match mine. If your grain  bill was less than 12 lbs. The amount of total water needed would be less.

As other answers suggested, my equipment profile very likely won't be ideal for use in your system, but the volumes should be very close. The differences being mostly the volume you transfer into your fermenter(s) and the volume you leave in the boiler vs. my volumes.

BOB357...I think you have nailed it. I miscalculated my water requirement. A simple math mistake. Thank you for pointing out the "obvious". Ok, so now I have all this weaker than expected wort and I added one package of Safale s-04 dry yeast across both the two fermenter buckets. Can I safely add a second round of yeast to each, or has that shipped sailed and I will have to live with what I get?

Marty
 
You should have the same amount of fermentables even with the with the larger volume, so if your originally planned yeast pitch was adequate with the higher gravity/lower volume, it should still be adequate.
 
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