Author Topic: Mash Profile - Mash Tun Deadspace Addition field sometimes missing  (Read 1830 times)

Offline mister2

  • BeerSmith Apprentice Brewer
  • **
  • Posts: 21
I have noticed when comparing some of my mash profiles that some show the "Mash Tun Deadspace Addition" field on the first step and others do not.  What would cause this?  I have experimented by unchecking the "Adjust Mash Vol for Losses" setting in my equipment profile and then creating a new test mash profile containing one infusion step and the field is still missing, so I'm not thinking the two are related.  Two mash profiles I am comparing where the deadspace field exists on one but not the other both have an Infusion step as the first step.

I am using BS v3.1.07

Offline Oginme

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3115
  • Goats, guitars, and a home brew; Life is good!
    • Longvu LaManchas
Re: Mash Profile - Mash Tun Deadspace Addition field sometimes missing
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2020, 02:18:06 PM »
If I am following correctly, you are saying that you have a mash profile where there is a separate mash step labeled: 'mash tun deadspace addition'.  This would only appear if someone set it up as a separate infusion step in their mash profile.  BeerSmith does not automatically create a separate step nor does it add steps to a mash profile beyond calculated sparge and drainage steps.  The program would automatically add this volume into the initial infusion step if the box 'adjust mash vol for losses' is checked, and would not add it if the box is unchecked.

Where did the original mash profile come from?
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline mister2

  • BeerSmith Apprentice Brewer
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Mash Profile - Mash Tun Deadspace Addition field sometimes missing
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2020, 02:41:14 PM »
Two similar mash profiles, one showing the field, the other not.  Both start with an infusion step.  Hope that helps.






Offline Oginme

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3115
  • Goats, guitars, and a home brew; Life is good!
    • Longvu LaManchas
Re: Mash Profile - Mash Tun Deadspace Addition field sometimes missing
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2020, 04:42:12 PM »
OK, I see it now.  I can't see the rest of your mash profile so I am going by the behavior I see with my copy of BeerSmith 3.1.05.  When I have a value for mash tun addition or dead space, this field shows up in my mash profile when I look at the details of the step.  It is there whether or not I have 'adjust mash vol for deadspace' clicked or not.  When I do not have any dead space in my equipment profile, it does not appear.  I have tried it over a couple of different equipment profiles and recipes and it behaves consistently on my copy.  No dead space -- no show; dead space -- shows up.

Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline mister2

  • BeerSmith Apprentice Brewer
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Mash Profile - Mash Tun Deadspace Addition field sometimes missing
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2020, 09:37:51 PM »
One thing that is confusing to me is that I was thinking of the mash profiles being static, stand-alone settings in the profiles->mash area.  However, they seem to be dynamic in that if you have a recipe that uses an equipment profile that has a mashtun with a nonzero deadspace loss value, the mash profile used in that recipe shows the corresponding deadspace value.  And if you have a different recipe that uses an equipment profile that has a mashtun deadspace loss of zero, the mash profile does not display the deadspace value.  I guess that makes sense, but the change to the mash profile settings file without my knowledge caught me by surprise.  I hope I'm understanding this behavior correctly.

Long ago I made a conscious effort to duplicate the default temperature mash profiles which seem to be fashioned for a brew pot with no deadspace and named them for my system which definitely has a mash tun deadspace.  Not sure if this was the right thing to do, but none of the default profiles display the deadspace field when I examine them in the Profiles->Mash area.  Looking at my duplicated mash profiles, it's probable I have not used all of them in a recipe that uses my system's profile that has deadspace.  Therefore, if I open one of those unused, duplicated profiles, it still has no association with my equipment profile, and as a result, does not show the deadspace field.  I hope I have that right.

Offline Oginme

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3115
  • Goats, guitars, and a home brew; Life is good!
    • Longvu LaManchas
Re: Mash Profile - Mash Tun Deadspace Addition field sometimes missing
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2020, 07:45:47 AM »
The mash profile is dynamically responsive to the recipe (grain weight) and the equipment profile (volume limits, dead space).   It is not changing anything with the process, it is reflective of the conditions.  As an example, one of my equipment profile has a dead space of 3.29 liters.  My BIAB profile has a dead space of zero.  For a recipe with 2.5 kg of grain in a mash profile which has an infusion of 3.0 liters per kg and forces a batch sparge (i.e. not a full volume biab mash profile) we get the following

With the adjust mash vol for dead space clicked, a mash profile with 3 liters per kg infusion on the system with the dead space gives me an infusion volume of 2.5 kg * 3 liters/kg + 3.29 liters = 10.29 liters of water.

With the adjust mash vol for dead space not clicked, I get the straight 2.5 kg * 3 liter/kg = 7.5 liters.  The program still shows me that I have 3.29 liters of dead space, but as the user I have chosen to ignore it.

On my BIAB equipment, I have no dead space so I get a straight calculation of 2.5 kg * 3 liters/kg = 7.5 liters.  The program does not show the dead space in the mash step because it is zero and does not affect the user decision either way (inclusion vs exclusion).

This seems pretty logical to me and is the application of the mash profile with the specific recipe elements and equipment profile attributes.  If I apply the same profiles to a recipe with 3 kg of grain, the base infusion volume would be 9 liters and then the decision to add the dead space to the first equipment profile will increase that to 12.29 liters.





Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline mister2

  • BeerSmith Apprentice Brewer
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Mash Profile - Mash Tun Deadspace Addition field sometimes missing
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2020, 08:56:49 AM »
Thank you for the thoughtful response.  The behavior as you describe makes sense.

Cheers!

 

modification