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Still trying to dial in equipment for my temps ...

SkyFlyer

Grandmaster Brewer
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Dec 22, 2008
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Location
Astoria, Or. USA
Hope all are having a great weekend, and hopefully making beer! :)
I am brewing, but I am still having issues with my temps. :(
It will take some time to dial it all in, I'm sure.  But we'll keep at it and it will happen!
Appreciate any help in this matter.
In particular, if you are using a Coleman 40qt cooler.
Tell me of your experience and what settings you finally got at, if you don't mind.

I am brewing a Kolsch today.  I have attached my .bsm if anyone wants to look at it.
Grain bill for a 5 gallon batch:
7 lbs. Pilsner (2 Row, German)
1 lb. Wheat Malt
0.75 Munich Malt - 10L
0.25 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L

Mash profile calls for:
11.97qt @ 172.8*
Hold mash at 152* for 60 min
Mash Out 5.4qt @ 208.3*
Hold mash at 168* for 10 min
Drain Mash Tun
Batch Sparge 3.65 gal @ 168*
Collect 6.41 gal of wort.

Here is what happened.
After strike water, the mash temp was 158*.  A little higher than 152*. 
So, I added 1qt cold water.  Temp is now 155*.
Left the lid open a bit.
Temp is now 153*
Only dropped to 151-152* in 60 minutes.  That is good.
Added the Mash Out water (5.4qt @ 208*).
Temp was 160-161*.  Should be 168*.
So, I used the BeerSmith tools and calculated what I would need to add.
Tool said I needed to add 2.1 qt to get to 168*
Only got to 163*.
Note, I think I was supposed to add 212* water.  My 2.1qt was probably around 204*, not 212*.
Might that have been the mistake and the difference?
Next time, I'll make sure it is 212*
Anyway, I decided to leave it at 163*.
Then did the vorlauf and lauter.
Collected 4 gals.
Then added the sparge water (deducted the 3.1qt that I had added previously in the mash).
Drained.  I collected a total of 6.75 gals.
Just over my projected 6.41.  Not too bad.

So ...
Any thoughts on what I should maybe try to do next?
I have the cooler setting in equipment on Aluminum (0.215) for this batch (Preston's suggestion).
I had it set to the plastic (0.300) before and was way off too.
This time was not much better.  Only got up to 162* or so on my last batch.
I just can't seem to get up to 168*
Maybe someone could explain the Specific Heat index a little to me.
I'm thinking this is the critical part of the whole equation.  What is it?
Do I want to make that number go up or down to help dial my equipment in?
So, other than not having 212* for my Mash Out adjustment, I followed my recipe pretty close.
Any suggestions on what to do for my next batch.
Thanks.
That Irish Red Ale that I had while making this batch makes it all worth while!! ;D
 

Attachments

  • Kolsch.AG.bsm
    14.3 KB · Views: 259
I saw this post after replying to your other post.  After reviewing your recipe, it would judge the problem to be your grain and tun temperatures.  If you click on the detail in your recipe view, you will see where to enter your actual grain and mash tun temperature.  This will allow you to then select the adjust temp for equipment and give that a try.  You should find that your temps will increase accordingly and utilize the the plastic material in your equipment profile.  Give that a try and see how that works for you.  Please post your results for us to analyze again.

Good brewing.
 
I am aware of those temp adjustments, I guess I didn't think it mattered that much. Bad thinking ...
It must! 
I had added 1 gal of boiling water to my Mash Tun cooler and let it sit for 5 minutes before starting.  So, the tun was quite warm.
I'm at work now and don't have my .bsm/recipe to look at, but I don't remember what I had for grain and mash tun temps.

So, you are suggesting that I lower those temps and see what I get for Strike and Mash In temps?
This is what I am looking for in the forum.  What are some of the things that one can adjust in BeerSmith.
I'm gathering that pretty much everything!!!
I had used the Adjust Mash Temps tool, but it did not get me anywhere near where I need to be (168*).
So, I'll play with BeerSmith and try a bunch of settings and see what I get.

I'm also hoping that someone with a plastic Coleman rectangular 40qt cooler will tell me of their experiences with it and BeerSmith and help me adjust mine.
Thanks again ...
 
I use a 28 qt coleman rectangle cooler for my mash tun.  My equipment settings are for the plastic.  I have hit my temp everytime, i just check the temp of my grain when adding it to the tun and take outdoor temp, since my tun is outside most of the time. and uset hat for my tun temp.  I haven't had a problem with temps not hitting or holding.

Hope this helps out.
 
Brew, Brew, Brew! The more we brew the better we get at it. Side benefit: More Beer to drink! Glad your Irish Red came out well!

+1 deerelk4x4 "Grain temp's and MT temp"

Not all igloo coolers (MT's) are the same, and I think most of my heat loss escapes through the Lid. It's hollow from what I can tell, and may benefit from adding some spray in foam to it.

Cheers
Preston
 
I'll keep brewing!  And I will eventually get it dialed in.
And thanks for the encouragement!
My problems I think is with BeerSmith. 
I'm just not getting some of it.
Deerelk4x4 suggested checking and changing the grain (and Mash Tun) starting temps.
I understand how that could affect everything. 
And, I was probably way off.
I know my grains were probably closer to 60* than the 70 or 75* that I had in my original recipe.
And since I had poured boiling water in to preheat the mash tun, I know that temp was probably closer to 125 or 150* instead of 75* or so that I had in the original recipe.
So, I made a copy of my recipe, changed those two temps, dropped the specific heat down a bit in the equipment.  I thought I would do this to test out the changes and familiarize myself with BeerSmith.
Now here is where I get confused.
I would have thought that the volumes and temps in the mash profile steps would have changed when I made changes elsewhere.
No, they are still the same.
I mean, if the grains are cooler and the mash tun is hotter, or I add a pound of grain, etc., the original values ( in the mash steps should change, shouldn't they?  They have to!
Is there something else I need to do to reconfigure or recalculate the values?
I know I can go in and manually enter values in the mash profile steps, but shouldn't that be automatic if you change values elsewhere in the recipe, like equipment, amount of grains, whatever?
One good thing is that the temps in my mash tun don't drop that much in 60 minutes, probably 2*.
So, that is acceptable.  I don't think my mash tun is the issue.
So, I guess what I am looking for answers to is ...
How do you recalculate if you change values like volume or temps?
I know I need to keep tweaking values to get things dialed in, but if nothing changes, how do I know if it is working?
I know there are no stupid questions, but I feel stupid!
Thanks for any help in this matter.
I plan on doing a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale next week, so I hope to get closer to being dialed in.
 
SkyFlyer said:
Now here is where I get confused.
I would have thought that the volumes and temps in the mash profile steps would have changed when I made changes elsewhere.
No, they are still the same.
I mean, if the grains are cooler and the mash tun is hotter, or I add a pound of grain, etc., the original values ( in the mash steps should change, shouldn't they?  They have to!
Is there something else I need to do to reconfigure or recalculate the values?
I know I can go in and manually enter values in the mash profile steps, but shouldn't that be automatic if you change values elsewhere in the recipe, like equipment, amount of grains, whatever?
One good thing is that the temps in my mash tun don't drop that much in 60 minutes, probably 2*.
So, that is acceptable.  I don't think my mash tun is the issue.
So, I guess what I am looking for answers to is ...
How do you recalculate if you change values like volume or temps?
I know I need to keep tweaking values to get things dialed in, but if nothing changes, how do I know if it is working?
I know there are no stupid questions, but I feel stupid!
Thanks for any help in this matter.
I plan on doing a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale next week, so I hope to get closer to being dialed in.

If you change the quantity of grains, then yes, it should change the volume of water, unless you have a set volume of water to Mash with.  I use the 1.25 qt per lb calculation and have no problem with the water quantity no changing.  Try setting that in your mash profile and see if the calculation works for you.

Good luck on your Pale ale.  Keep us updated and ask more questions if you have them.
 
Yes, changing the water/grain ratio from the 1.00 that it was to 1.25 did in fact change the volume and temp.
Is there a simple explanation for why the water/grain ration for the mash out step is like 1.90 or something like that?  If I set that back to 1.25, I get zeros for the volume.
And changing something like the amount of grains does change volume and temp.
Don't know why it wasn't changing before.
Probably didn't have a home brew by my computer!
Anyway, I'll keep poking at the buttons and trying stuff.
I have a much lower specific heat for this brew.
I'll see if it makes a difference.
Thanks ...
 
Is there a simple explanation for why the water/grain ration for the mash out step is like 1.90 or something like that?  If I set that back to 1.25, I get zeros for the volume.
If the water/grain ratio originally is set to 1.25 qts of water to 1# grain, and you want to mash out. You have to tell BeerSmith to add more water to the grain by changing the water to grain ratio to 1.90.

Cheers
Preston
 
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