Author Topic: Mash-in Problem  (Read 6643 times)

Offline Suds

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Mash-in Problem
« on: July 24, 2009, 05:29:29 AM »
G'day brewers,

Was putting down an American Rye with a 6- step mash this morning when something went amiss with BeerSmith's dough-in liquor calculations. As you can see from the copy & paste below the liquor temp in the first step (Dough-in) with the grain temp at 15 deg c was 28.4 deg c which resulted in a dough-in mash temp of 28 deg c instead of the required 35 deg c.
I am new to BeerSmith (2nd brew) & am wondering what went wrong? Can anyone please enlighten me? Perhaps it's the tradesman & not the tools?  ::)

3 min Mash Ingredients
Dough-in: Add 18.52 L of water at 28.4 C
 0 min - Hold mash at 35.0 C for 0 min
 7 min Ferulic-Acid: Heat to 42.0 C over 7 min
 20 min - Hold mash at 42.0 C for 20 min
 10 min Protein: Heat to 52.0 C over 10 min
 20 min - Hold mash at 52.0 C for 20 min
 11 min Saccharification: Heat to 63.0 C over 11 min
 30 min - Hold mash at 63.0 C for 30 min
 9 min Glyco-Protein: Heat to 72.0 C over 9 min
 30 min - Hold mash at 72.0 C for 30 min
 6 min Mashout: Heat to 78.0 C over 6 min
 10 min - Hold mash at 78.0 C for 10 min

Cheers,
Suds.

Mij

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Re: Mash-in Problem
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2009, 06:37:20 AM »
My first guess is that your equipment temp setting is high...  (But, that's just a guess...)

Offline UselessBrewing

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Re: Mash-in Problem
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2009, 07:59:05 AM »
Can you attach your recipe so we can look at it. This one may take some work to figure out.

Cheers
Preston
The woodpecker pecks, Not to annoy, But to survive!

Offline Suds

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Re: Mash-in Problem
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2009, 04:59:47 PM »
Here you go Preston & whilst I'm at it you will note that the printout shows 4 batch sparges of 6.55 litres when I actually did 2 sparges of 13.1 litres after draining the mash to kettle. Can you tell me how to configure BeerSmith to show 2 x 13.1 litre batches instead of 4 x 6.55 litres? All help much appreciated. :)

0099\Red Ryder
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 24/07/2009
Style: American Wheat or Rye Beer Brewer: Pete
Batch Size: 24.00 L Assistant Brewer: Little Beaver
Boil Volume: 39.00 L Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 82.00 %

Brewing Steps Check Time Step
 24/07/2009 Clean and prepare equipment.
 --  Measure ingredients, crush grains.
 --  Prepare 44.71 L water for brewing
 --  Prepare Ingredients for Mash
Amount Item Type
0.50 kg Rice Gulls (Barret Burston) (0.0 EBC) Adjunct
2.60 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain
1.56 kg Wheat Malt, Dark (Weyermann) (13.8 EBC) Grain
1.04 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain
0.05 items Sodium Metabisulphate (Mash 90.0 min) Misc
 
 3 min Mash Ingredients
Dough-in: Add 18.52 L of water at 28.4 C
 0 min - Hold mash at 35.0 C for 0 min
 7 min Ferulic-Acid: Heat to 42.0 C over 7 min
 20 min - Hold mash at 42.0 C for 20 min
 10 min Protein: Heat to 52.0 C over 10 min
 20 min - Hold mash at 52.0 C for 20 min
 11 min Saccharification: Heat to 63.0 C over 11 min
 30 min - Hold mash at 63.0 C for 30 min
 9 min Glyco-Protein: Heat to 72.0 C over 9 min
 30 min - Hold mash at 72.0 C for 30 min
 6 min Mashout: Heat to 78.0 C over 6 min
 10 min - Hold mash at 78.0 C for 10 min
 --  Drain Mash Tun
 --  Batch Sparge Round 1: Sparge with 6.55 L of 90.0 C water.
 --  Batch Sparge Round 2: Sparge with 6.55 L of 90.0 C water.
 --  Batch Sparge Round 3: Sparge with 6.55 L of 90.0 C water.
 --  Batch Sparge Round 4: Sparge with 6.55 L of 90.0 C water.
 --  Add water to achieve boil volume of 39.00 L
 --  Estimated Pre-boil Gravity is: 1.038 SG with all grains/extracts added
 Boil for 90 min Boil Ingredients
Boil Amount Item Type
45 min 21.00 gm Southern Cross [12.50 %] (45 min) Hops
20 min 20.00 gm Riwaka (D Saaz) [4.20 %] (20 min) Hops
15 min 0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
15 min 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
 
 --  Steep Hops
Amount Item Type
30.00 gm Riwaka (D Saaz) [4.50 %] (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops
 
 --  Cool wort to fermentation temperature
 --  Add water (as needed) to achieve volume of 24.00 L
 --  Siphon wort to primary fermenter and aerate wort.
 --  Add Ingredients to Fermenter
Amount Item Type
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) Yeast-Ale
 
 24/07/2009 Measure Original Gravity: ________ (Estimate: 1.053 SG)
 24/07/2009 Measure Batch Volume: ________ (Estimate: 24.00 L)
 14 days Ferment in primary for 14 days at 20.0 C
 7/08/2009 Measure Final Gravity: ________ (Estimate: 1.013 SG)
 --  Keg beer at 6.0 C at a pressure of 79.0 KPA
 4.0 Weeks Age for 4.0 Weeks at 6.0 C
 4/09/2009 Sample and enjoy!

It may be worth noting that my initial recipe in BeerSmith went like a charm without any of the dough-in problems associated with this one (My 2nd).

Cheers,
Suds.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 05:23:32 PM by Suds »

Offline UselessBrewing

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Re: Mash-in Problem
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2009, 09:20:34 AM »
I was hoping that you would post the .bsm file (My apologies, I should have requested it!) that will show all your equipment settings and mash info. Do you mind posting that so we can get a close look at what is going on?

Cheers
Preston
The woodpecker pecks, Not to annoy, But to survive!

Offline Suds

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Re: Mash-in Problem
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2009, 10:03:29 PM »
Preston,

Have finally worked out how to add an attachment. :D
Hope this is what you are looking for?

Cheers,
Suds.


Offline UselessBrewing

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Re: Mash-in Problem
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2009, 06:23:56 AM »
Thats exactly what was needed. So here is what is going on.

There are two things you can do to fix this. One would be remove the check from the "Adjust Temp for Equipment" in the "Mash Profile" area.

Or you can fix the problem.
If you go into the details of your mash profile "Dunkelwiezen, Rye" you have the mash Tun Temperature set to 212 deg C, Which equates to 413.6 deg F. If you set this temp to something like room temp, then everything looks normal.

Hope this helps!
O, and thanks for the recipe!  ;D

Cheers
Preston
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 06:52:58 AM by UselessBrewing »
The woodpecker pecks, Not to annoy, But to survive!

Mij

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Re: Mash-in Problem
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 06:36:53 AM »
I'm not going to say a word  ;D

Offline UselessBrewing

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Re: Mash-in Problem
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 06:54:21 AM »
I'm not going to say a word  ;D


HAHA! What temp does water boil at again?  ;D
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 07:00:30 AM by UselessBrewing »
The woodpecker pecks, Not to annoy, But to survive!

Offline Suds

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Re: Mash-in Problem
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 07:01:45 PM »
Thanks for that Preston.
It must have been a typo.  ::) Only my 2nd brew with beerSmith but learning to double check everything all the time. ;D
Was supposed to read 21.2 deg c.
Glad you like the recipe.

Whilst I'm here can you tell me how to fix this other little niggle?

Quote
You will note that the printout shows 4 batch sparges of 6.55 litres when I actually did 2 sparges of 13.1 litres after draining the mash to kettle. Can you tell me how to configure BeerSmith to show 2 x 13.1 litre batches instead of 4 x 6.55 litres?

Cheers,
Suds.

Offline UselessBrewing

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Re: Mash-in Problem
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2009, 01:37:20 PM »
If you go to the mash profile again and look at the % of the mash tun volume you have it set for 36%. Change that to 50% and leave the check's in Sparge using equal size batches, and drain MT before starting to sparge and it should work.

This wont work 100% of the time. My understanding is that it takes into account the grains. For instance If you have a recipe that has a large grain bill. It will take a lot of water to cover them. leaving behind a small portion for sparge. You would not want to split such a small amount of water because it would not be efficient.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Preston
The woodpecker pecks, Not to annoy, But to survive!