Author Topic: Question with tools, water profile  (Read 4450 times)

Offline stevemwazup

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Question with tools, water profile
« on: September 18, 2009, 10:00:35 AM »
    HI Brad, I'm wanting to make mineral adjustments to my local water profile to match other profiles, like Burton on Trent for an IPA, or perhaps London's water profile to make a Porter or
Stout.
I'm just not sure if I'm doing the adjustments correctly. So if I could run my process by you and get your input, I would appreciate it.

My local water
Ca 3.5,  Mg 0.0,  Na 5.4,  So4 4.6,  Cl 2.3,  Hco3 28.06
(Alkalinity as CaCo3  23 multiplied by 1.22= 28.06 ?)

Burton on Trent water profile
Ca 295.0,  Mg 45.0,  Na 55.0,  So4 725.0,  Cl 25.0,  Hco3 300.0

I then add the following minerals to get close to the Burton profile

18 grams of Gypsum
10 grams of Epsom Salt
2  grams of Calcium Chloride
5  grams of Baking Soda
7  grams of Chalk

Once I inputted the additions the calculator gave me these totals
Ca 289.5,  Mg 37.1,  Na 56.8,  So4 532.3,  Cl 38.6,  Hco3 321.6

I'm wanting to know if I'm on the right trail or not.
Any input would be welcomed.
stevemwazup




Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Question with tools, water profile
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2009, 07:37:04 PM »
Several of those are much too high.  Check everything again.  I don't use the BS water tool so I can't really assist, but magnesium range is 10-30, and 10 is fine.  Higher than that, think "Milk of Magnesia" laxative potion.

Ca and Na are way high too. 

The high-sulfate water certainly drove the pale ale style in Burton years ago, but now they certainly treat their water and probably reduce the sulfates to improve the balance.  I can't recommend trying to dupe the historic water profile.  You have low-mineral water like me.  I'd recommend trying to reach the recommended brewing minimum for each mineral, and then adjust the chloride:sulfate ratio to be approx. 0.60.  Attached is Palmer's sheet for a 12 SRM brew, midpoint for ESB.  Plug in your water profile and your mash water volume and you should be close.

Offline stevemwazup

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Re: Question with tools, water profile
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2009, 12:05:34 PM »
     Thanks for your reply.
Still trying to understand the differant water programs.

Using the John Palmer program I did get differant results.

New salt additions
Chalk 2.0 grams,  Gypsum 7.0 grams,  Calcium Chloride 1.5,  Epsom Salt 1.5,

Salt Contributions
Calcium 123.0,  Magnesium 6.0,  Hco3 53.0,  Sodium 0,  chloride 32,  Sulfate 198.00

Chloride to Sulfate ratio = 0.16
SRM= 7

So do you think this more in line with the proper additions to be using?
Thanks again for all your help.
stevemwazup

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Question with tools, water profile
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2009, 07:13:54 AM »
Using the John Palmer program I did get differant results.

New salt additions
Chalk 2.0 grams,  Gypsum 7.0 grams,  Calcium Chloride 1.5,  Epsom Salt 1.5,

Salt Contributions
Calcium 123.0,  Magnesium 6.0,  Hco3 53.0,  Sodium 0,  chloride 32,  Sulfate 198.00

Chloride to Sulfate ratio = 0.16
SRM= 7

Palmer adjusts only the mash water, and not all the water, which might be a difference.  

Your C:S ratio is Very Bitter, which may lead to some sulfate harshness.  Mag was a touch low.  Your Ca and SO4, while in range, are in the top half.  I'm not sure at what point water may start to taste "minerally" but I'd recommend a less aggressive starting point. 

I entered SRM 7 in row 8, which gave an RA range of minus 37 to +22.  The midpoint is minus 8.  I entered the minus 8 in row 23, the target RA, and also assumed a mash volume of 4 gallons.  You must enter your mash volume in cell C23.  I left my profile in place so you could re-do this with yours.  But our water is similar, so it should not change too much.  

CLT salt additions
Chalk 0.0 grams,  Gypsum 1.0 grams,  Calcium Chloride 1.4,  Epsom Salt 1.25,

CLT Adjusted mash PPMs
Calcium 50.0,  Magnesium 10.0,  Sodium 5,  chloride 53,  Sulfate 80.0

Look at row 40, from L to O.  We want the RA to be close to the target and the SRM range to capture our target SRM.  Then look at chloride:sulfate ratio to fit your style brew.

RA = minus 21 (within the RA range), and SRM range of 4 to 8, and you want 7, so OK.  

C:S ratio of 0.67, or Bitter.  It's the ratio that matters here, and not having high sulfate.  If you want a more bitter ratio, you could boost gypsum slightly.  Some of these minerals cancel each other out: I found the chalk addition made it tougher to hit the RA range.

Enter your profile and your mash volume and see if that makes any sense.  And remember these minerals adjust mash water only, and not all the water you'll use.  I pre-heat some water and mix the minerals in a pyrex, and then add to strike water just before adding grains.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 07:31:34 AM by MaltLicker »

Offline stevemwazup

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Re: Question with tools, water profile
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2009, 02:41:53 PM »
     Thanks for your help.
I was definitely missing some steps along the way.
 :-[
Much Thanks
stevemwazup