Wee Heavy and Molasses

So I will be brewing a Scottish Wee Heavy on Saturday and was thinking about adding some molasses to the boil.  Has anyone had any experience with this?  I am going to obtain the highest quality that I can get and I am thinking about blackstrap molasses instead of dark or mild. (still not completely sold on that yet though)

I guess this post is simply to extract some knowledge from you guys about brewing with molasses.  Any comments will be appreciated.

That is certainly an option, but. . . .

What I think you are trying to accomplish can be better accomplished with a very long boil. 

I have tried Molasses and even raw natural syrup's. The Molasses worked fine, But I have since gone to 3 hour boils and gotten much better results! You probably already know this, but here are a couple things to keep in mind when brewing a Wee Heavy. Low sacrification temps, High alcohol tolerant yeast, Very large Starter, Cool fermentation temp's and Long Boil's.

I have a couple questions and If you could post your recipe, that would be nice also (Curiosity ;D  Scotch Ale's are one of my favorite styles!)

What are you using for a base malt?
What kind of yeast?
How large a starter will you make?

Cheers
Preston

I have not finalized my recipe quite yet but I will be using US Pale 2row as a base with the Wyeast Scottish Ale strand (1728).  I will be fermenting around 60F.  

Preston, you confuse me when you say to use low sacc. temps. as I was under the impression that high sacc. temps. would be preferred to maintain a high level of unfermentables.

UselessBrewing said:

How large a starter will you make?

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As for the size of my starter, I'm not sure.  What do you recommend?  I usually just boil 1pint of water and add 1/2cup of DME.  I pitch the yeast into this after it cools.

The last two Scottish Ales I made had about 90min boils while I reduced the first gallon of wort collected down to half its original volume on the stove.  I want to know if the added molasses will add a distinguishable flavor that the malt cannot.  This is why I am avoiding the 3 hour boil.  

UselessBrewing said:

I have a couple questions and If you could post your recipe, that would be nice also (Curiosity ;D  Scotch Ale's are one of my favorite styles!)

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OG for the recipe will be about 1.090 or so.
IBUS will be low 30s - high 20s (I believe)

When I finallize the recipe I will post it.

Cheers!
  Brad

Brad, the question is what is the FG you are shooting for.  Your mash temp needs to support this.  I frequently brew real big (1.120+ OG) so I mash low to maximize fermentability and get the FG I am looking for (1.025-1.030).

AG or are you using extract as well.?

Fred

Good point Fred.  The first Wee Heavy I made ended up finishing at 1.032.  It was mashed at 158F.  If I had mashed a few degrees lower it probably would have finished in the acceptable range. 

On the contrary, my second Wee Heavy (1.091) was mashed at a similar temperature of 156F - which is still considered a high mash temperature - and fermented down to 1.023 (right where I wanted it, and where I want the next one too).  This does not invalidate your suggestion though as you said you like to brew BIG. (1.120+)  It simply confirms it.

Out of curiosity, I would like to know what temperature you mash at for a brew that big and whether or not you use any extract.

And, no I am not using extract, with the exception being if I somehow gravely undershoot my gravity during a brew.  I have been considering using some DME in this Wee Heavy, but I am weighing this option against the molasses (which I really want to try). 

Thanks for the response!
Brad

My rule of thumb is this. If you are going bigger than 1.065, you need to lower your sacrification temps to get a more fermentable wort (Start high-End high works for both Gravity and Maltiness)...  Believe me if your shooting for 1.090 there will be PLENTY left that the yeast wont be able to consume. My WeeHeavy starts life in the high 1.120's AG(Like Fred, and I mash at 148F) and ends up usually around low 1.030's to high 1.020's, but it takes work to get that attenuation.

Yes the Molasses will change the flavor of the maltiness of the beer. IMO longer boil times make for a better choice than adding Molasses. I got average marks when I added Molasses, but got great reviews using longer boil times. If you don't have the time for a longer boil there are other things you can do. Like you did before, Reduce the first gallon or two of wort, or you could also add some of the grist in there (modified Decoction) to change some of the flavors. Or add the molasses. It is your beer after all, experiment and have fun with it!

The starter should be at least 2.5 liters per Mr.malty. http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html . If you don't have time for a starter, 4 vials of yeast would work. Check Mr.Malty when you are not sure.

Cheers
Preston

Preston,
Thanks for the Mr. Malty link.  Very helpful! 

Due to time constraints and sheer curiosity I will be using molasses for the brew on Saturday.  I have never tried a 3hour boil but I am sure that down the road one of my Scottish Ales will utilize one.  I will be making a yeast starter tomorrow and I might hold the saccrification temperature a few degrees lower than I have been as an experiment.

I do have one more question and it pertains to the molasses:  When is a good time to add it?  Will adding it to the boil be advantageous or will I benefit in some way waiting until after the boil, before I pitch the yeast, to add it?

Brad

My mash varies (as I still somewhat experiment) but entails 2 hrs at 148F and possibly a decoction to 154F or there abouts.  Fermentability is key in monster brews.

Consider switching to a Baltic Porter,  Mollasses works well in this style.

BTW - here is my recipe for this brew:

Wee Heavy

Grains
12.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 75.76 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 12.12 %
0.50 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 3.03 %
0.25 lb Peat Smoked Malt (2.8 SRM) Grain 1.52 %
0.25 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 1.52 %

1.00 lb Molasses (80.0 SRM) Sugar 6.06 %

Hops
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 15.1 IBU
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (30 min) Hops 10.5 IBU

Yeast
1 Pkgs Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Ale

Est. OG 1.090
IBUs 25.6
5 gal batch
120 min boil
Sacc. temp 155F

I will be reducing the first gal of runoff on the stove to half its volume.

SFBeerGuy said:

I do have one more question and it pertains to the molasses:  When is a good time to add it?  Will adding it to the boil be advantageous or will I benefit in some way waiting until after the boil, before I pitch the yeast, to add it?

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I would add it during the last 15-20 min of the boil. That way it does not affect the hops much. Speaking of, my personal opinion would be only add the EKG and skip the 30Min addition or reduce it an move it back to the 60min. Scotches typically have a muted hop bitterness/aroma.

Cheers
Preston

UselessBrewing said:

I would add it during the last 15-20 min of the boil. That way it does not affect the hops much. Speaking of, my personal opinion would be only add the EKG and skip the 30Min addition or reduce it an move it back to the 60min. Scotches typically have a muted hop bitterness/aroma.

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Thanks for the suggestions Preston.  Think I will modify my hop profile.  I have my starter prepared and the brew starts tomorrow morning.

Thanks all!
Brad

Best of luck on the brew day!

Cheers
Preston