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The effects of left over hops during fermentation.

Berkyjay

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So ever since I started brewing, I've been using pellet hopes.  Normally after the boil, I run the wort through a strainer into my carboy.  Even with the strainer I am still left with a fair amount of hop matter in the wort, which hangs around until I transfer into a secondary carboy.  I'm thinking it might be the cause of some slightly bad after tastes that arise in my beers.  I've made the decision to try using more plug and whole hops so as to eliminate this left over hop matter so in the very least I will be eliminating one variable in my problem.  But I was wondering what effects this left over hop matter can do to beer.
 
Berkyjay said:
So ever since I started brewing, I've been using pellet hopes.  Normally after the boil, I run the wort through a strainer into my carboy.  Even with the strainer I am still left with a fair amount of hop matter in the wort, which hangs around until I transfer into a secondary carboy.  I'm thinking it might be the cause of some slightly bad after tastes that arise in my beers.  I've made the decision to try using more plug and whole hops so as to eliminate this left over hop matter so in the very least I will be eliminating one variable in my problem.  But I was wondering what effects this left over hop matter can do to beer.

Interesting question and I have not run across it before.  I use exclusively pellet hops and have not noticed any ill effects.  I used to move my beer to secondary and now do not even do that anymore.  I will often let the beer sit on the trub for a month or so.  No big deal.

Are you pitching your yeast at the appropriate temperaturs, and, when you ferment, it is fermented at of below the yeasts range?
 
Rep said:
Interesting question and I have not run across it before.  I use exclusively pellet hops and have not noticed any ill effects.  I used to move my beer to secondary and now do not even do that anymore.  I will often let the beer sit on the trub for a month or so.  No big deal.

Are you pitching your yeast at the appropriate temperaturs, and, when you ferment, it is fermented at of below the yeasts range?

To be honest, the after taste I am getting is very very minor.  I am just trying to eliminate unknown variables in my brew process over time so that I can better control the flavor and aroma of my beer.  I have started to control my ferm and pitch temp and this did improve the quality of my beer. 

Thanks for your reply.
 
Berkyjay said:
Rep said:
Interesting question and I have not run across it before.  I use exclusively pellet hops and have not noticed any ill effects.  I used to move my beer to secondary and now do not even do that anymore.  I will often let the beer sit on the trub for a month or so.  No big deal.

Are you pitching your yeast at the appropriate temperaturs, and, when you ferment, it is fermented at of below the yeasts range?

To be honest, the after taste I am getting is very very minor.  I am just trying to eliminate unknown variables in my brew process over time so that I can better control the flavor and aroma of my beer.  I have started to control my ferm and pitch temp and this did improve the quality of my beer. 

Thanks for your reply.

Temperature control is often the cause of many issues.  I am glad to hear you believe your beer has minor issues.

Do not forget that time may be your friend as well.  If you have an off taste beer, let it sit for a couple of months or so.  You may be surprised when you revisit it.
 
Rep said:
Berkyjay said:
Rep said:
Interesting question and I have not run across it before.  I use exclusively pellet hops and have not noticed any ill effects.  I used to move my beer to secondary and now do not even do that anymore.  I will often let the beer sit on the trub for a month or so.  No big deal.

Are you pitching your yeast at the appropriate temperaturs, and, when you ferment, it is fermented at of below the yeasts range?

To be honest, the after taste I am getting is very very minor.  I am just trying to eliminate unknown variables in my brew process over time so that I can better control the flavor and aroma of my beer.  I have started to control my ferm and pitch temp and this did improve the quality of my beer. 

Thanks for your reply.

Temperature control is often the cause of many issues.  I am glad to hear you believe your beer has minor issues.

Do not forget that time may be your friend as well.  If you have an off taste beer, let it sit for a couple of months or so.  You may be surprised when you revisit it.

Yeah, I brew mostly Belgian styles and I have been told that they usually need to sit for a period of time to age.  I get impatient and want to taste it so I usually sneak a bottle or two.  ;D
 
What is the taste you are trying to nail down. Maybe we can help if you describe the taste.

Cheers
Preston
 
    Is the taste a harsh bittering flavor, from the hops?
How fast are you cooling your wort down? Hops can give off a harsh bittering flavor if the wort isn't cooled down fast enough.
stevemwazup
 
UselessBrewing said:
What is the taste you are trying to nail down. Maybe we can help if you describe the taste.

Cheers
Preston

Well like I said, it's a very minor taste.  But it is kind of a bad bitter aftertaste, and again it is nothing that makes the beer undrinkable.  I believe the beer is tasting pretty good actually.  It's just I sometimes get this weird slight aftertaste.  It might be as a previous poster suggested that I need to age these beers longer.

And Steven, I am able to chill my wort fairly quickly.  In the 15 -30 min range easily.
 
How does the beer taste during the entire process from Start of boil to bottling time and then after you bottle? By chance do you see a ring or spots inside the bottles at the fill line in the neck of the bottle???
 
UselessBrewing said:
How does the beer taste during the entire process from Start of boil to bottling time and then after you bottle? By chance do you see a ring or spots inside the bottles at the fill line in the neck of the bottle???

No, nothing that is really off taste wise through the brew process.  And no ring or spots, everything appears to be normal. 

So it seems like nobody believes that hop matter left over in the fermentation process is any cause for concern.  For my next brew I am going to try using plugs or whole hops just as a test case.  Thanks for the input.
 
It could be the style you are brewing.  I dislike Belgians.  To me they taste like a batch of beer I once dumped.
 
Rep said:
It could be the style you are brewing.  I dislike Belgians.  To me they taste like a batch of beer I once dumped.

Haha, yes you could very well be right.  I think there may be a fine line between a good tasting Belgian and a bad tasting one.  But I am on a quest to master Belgians since they are some of my favorite beers.
 
Berkjay, let me know if you need any help with mastering the Belgian styles, I have quite a bit of experience. I've brewed a ton of Belgians, and won some awards. They are definitely my favorite beer style.

Darin
 
dhaenerbrewer said:
Berkjay, let me know if you need any help with mastering the Belgian styles, I have quite a bit of experience. I've brewed a ton of Belgians, and won some awards. They are definitely my favorite beer style.

Darin

Hey Darin, thanks for the offer!  I have two questions for you.  What are your thoughts on using candi syrup in your Belgians?  I make my own and I usually try to be creative in how I make it and it is usually around 15-20% of my recipe.  Also, do you repitch yeast for bottle conditioning?  I've been wanting to dive into this but I feel that I really don't have the know how nor the equipment to pull it off....mainly because I have no way yet to filter my beer.
 
So it seems like nobody believes that hop matter left over in the fermentation process is any cause for concern.  For my next brew I am going to try using plugs or whole hops just as a test case.  Thanks for the input.
I have had a grassy taste in one of my beers once. I attributed it to leaving the dry hops in for to long. But nothing more than that.

I believe you can't make a "good" ("Good" being relative) Belgian without Candi sugar of some type.

Cheers
Preston
 
What IBUs are we talking about, which hops model you use, and what are you using for the bittering?  Same, or it varies?  Assuming the hops themselves are good quality and not giving you that bite, have you tried first-wort hopping?  I really believe it does smooth out the bittering and enhance the hop flavors.  Just put your bittering hops in the kettle as the first clean wort is coming in.  They soak at ~150F until the boil starts, and that temp and the pH supposedly extract and "fix" more stable and pleasant iso-alpha acids. 

BSmith has a setting for "impact" of FWH under Tools\Options\Bitterness.  The default is +10%, but I've actually started using zero and minus 10% because it is so much smoother that perceived bitterness is lower. 
 
MaltLicker said:
What IBUs are we talking about, which hops model you use, and what are you using for the bittering?  Same, or it varies?   Assuming the hops themselves are good quality and not giving you that bite, have you tried first-wort hopping?  I really believe it does smooth out the bittering and enhance the hop flavors.  Just put your bittering hops in the kettle as the first clean wort is coming in.  They soak at ~150F until the boil starts, and that temp and the pH supposedly extract and "fix" more stable and pleasant iso-alpha acids. 

BSmith has a setting for "impact" of FWH under Tools\Options\Bitterness.  The default is +10%, but I've actually started using zero and minus 10% because it is so much smoother that perceived bitterness is lower. 

I usually use a combination of Saaz, Hallertauer, and Styrian Goldings for an IBU range between 20-30.  I have used first wort hopping in the past but I have moved away from it recently.
 
Berkyjay said:
I have used first wort hopping in the past but I have moved away from it recently.

This brings up the question about the importance of skimming or removing the hot-break during the beginning of the boil as I believe James (if that is your real name) might be avoiding FWH additions due to the fact that they will be skimmed away during this process.

If this is too off topic please let me know and I will begin a new topic for it.
 
SFBeerGuy said:
Berkyjay said:
I have used first wort hopping in the past but I have moved away from it recently.

This brings up the question about the importance of skimming or removing the hot-break during the beginning of the boil as I believe James (if that is your real name) might be avoiding FWH additions due to the fact that they will be skimmed away during this process.

If this is too off topic please let me know and I will begin a new topic for it.

This is true, I moved away from FWH to allow me to remove the hot break.  Thanks for including that fact Brad.
 
FWIW, I recall some podcast (likely one of JZ's) where someone asked about skimming hot break, and the point was made that no commercial brewer does it.......too impractical.  Since it is "broken out" and precipitated, most of the hot break falls to the bottom after cooling.  If you whirlpool and let rest for 30 mins before transferring to fermenter, you're leaving most hot break behind.  But do what works for you.
 
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