Author Topic: Mr. Malty calculations  (Read 9373 times)

Offline dabeer

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Mr. Malty calculations
« on: November 10, 2009, 08:08:10 AM »
I don't completly understand the calculations.  I understand vials or liters of water to use, but how much DME should I be using.  Is it a certain amount per liter, or ounce or Quart. I am only confused on the DME to use per liquid.  Thanks

Offline UselessBrewing

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Re: Mr. Malty calculations
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2009, 08:36:18 AM »
First of all, Welcome to the forum! Glad to have you.

Ideally you want your starter to be around 1.040. You can estimate about 1 cup per liter of water. This will average around 1.040. Palmer has a great writeup here
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.html

Cheers
Preston
The woodpecker pecks, Not to annoy, But to survive!

Offline Wildrover

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Re: Mr. Malty calculations
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2009, 12:18:21 PM »
I asked a similar question to some home brewing friends not that long ago.  I guess according to JZ, he says around 1/2 of a cup per pint (approx .5 a liter) and JZ says 3 oz per liter.  I did a little experiment and they are both pretty close to a 1.040 starter

Offline stadelman

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Re: Mr. Malty calculations
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2009, 02:22:46 PM »
This is one of a few brewing related things that I do in metric.

It's super easy to remember and to scale up and down... 100 grams of DME per 1 liter of water.

Offline dabeer

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Re: Mr. Malty calculations
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2009, 03:47:13 PM »
Thanks everyone for the clarification.

Offline Rep

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Re: Mr. Malty calculations
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2009, 04:13:58 PM »
I was searching our hosts recipe database last night seeking ideas for my next brew.  I came across this recipe for Yeast Starters:  http://beersmith.com/Recipes2/recipe_346.htm

I kind of laughed but in reality it is a great place to post it for reference.

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Mr. Malty calculations
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2009, 07:32:22 AM »
Just to share a "lesson learned" on starters............given the small amount of water used, it is easy to boil it down quickly and thus concentrate the "wort" to a higher OG than intended.  When I returned to brewing, I apparently did this often and drowned some liquid yeasts in some high-gravity starters of ~1.065. 

This is a good use of a refractometer if you have one.  Check the gravity while it's boiling and add water to dilute to your 1.035 to 1.040 goal as needed.  Or start with 1.2L of water to account for the shrinkage. 

dhaenerbrewer

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Re: Mr. Malty calculations
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2009, 10:12:25 AM »
Ideally you want your starter to be around 1.040.

Just a note on that gravity for a yeast starter. I always make my starter slightly lower gravity ( 1-2 degrees Plato ) than the gravity of the beer it will be fermenting. This is especially important for high gravity beers, as the yeast may go into osmotic shock, and die. They love sugar, but if there's too much, and they're not used to it, they don't know what to do.

Darin

Offline Wildrover

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Re: Mr. Malty calculations
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2009, 09:00:00 PM »
Darin,

I'm not saying I disagree with you but the Pope sure seems to.  Below is from his website and the section entitled 14 Essential Questions About Yeast Starters.  

Q: If I’m making a high gravity beer, shouldn’t I make a high gravity starter so the yeast become acclimated?

No. In general, starter wort should be between 1.030 and 1.040 (7 - 10°P)...

...Yeast don’t get used to a high gravity environment, and the high osmotic pressure can really stress the yeast. Don’t forget, you want to increase healthy cells in a starter more than you want to increase the number of unhealthy cells.”

http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.htm

What do you think?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 10:44:23 PM by Wildrover »

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Mr. Malty calculations
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2009, 07:06:23 AM »
I like the snippet I've seen numerous times that with a starter, we're growing yeast, and not making beer. 

So the little things we can do to encourage healthy cell growth like giving a shot of O2, using a touch of nutrient, and using a stir plate all make sense.  I try to keep the starter between 1.030 and 1.040, and usually around one liter (more than enough for my typical four gallons).  Once it's done, and I can visually see the slurry, then I may decide not to pitch every drop of yeast if I'm wanting some cell growth in the beer, like in a hefe or wit. 

Doing the starter confirms the package health and vastly multiplies your cell count, and gives you the flexibility to pitch what amount you want to pitch, knowing it's healthy and ready to eat. 

dhaenerbrewer

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Re: Mr. Malty calculations
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2009, 10:09:23 AM »
"Wort or media composition.  Wort (or media) composition also determines yeast growth and fermentation performance and is important in maintaining and storing viable, stable yeast.  In terms of fermentation, standard brewing wort contains most of the ingredients necessary for fermentation.  Problems arise only if the nitrogen composition is low.  This occurs only if a cheap or poor quality malt extract is used or if there are a large amount of adjuncts added.  In terms of propagation, the closer the starter media is to the fermentation wort the better.  A wort with an original gravity of 1.040 works well for most fermentations and is recommended for use in most brewing situations.   If pitching into a high gravity wort, a standard starter may get shocked from the change in osmotic pressure.  In this case a higher gravity starter (O.G. =1.065) may be necessary.  Lower gravity starters (O.G. = 1.020) are commonly used by homebrewers and routinely produce higher concentrations of yeast but do not perform well when pitched into normal brewing worts.  Presumably this is due to osmotic shock. " - From Mary Beth Raines; on the Maltose Falcons Website. http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech <--

In my opinion ( which may be heavily biased ) she is quite brilliant and one of the most educated persons I have ever spoken with about yeast. I find it works well for me. To each his own I guess. On a lighter note, when I was mulling around their site looking for that, I stumbled across some pictures of my brewery in Oxnard when the Falcons toured it. My assistant Nicholas did the tour. Check it out. http://www.maltosefalcons.com/v/200507VenturaBus/

Darin

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Mr. Malty calculations
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2009, 02:23:49 PM »
If pitching into a high gravity wort, a standard starter may get shocked from the change in osmotic pressure.  In this case a higher gravity starter (O.G. =1.065) may be necessary.  Darin

Does this mean "stepping up" to that OG from a regular starter, or dumping a package into 1.065 starter?

I'm thinking barleywine and Belgian Dark Strongs, and I've never read a recommendation to make a higher-gravity starter, just to make darn sure to pitch enough healthy cells to do the job.  Clearly, this makes a strong argument for never pitching dry yeast right on the wort, as the shock of the first liquid (high sugar wort) crossing the membrane is detrimental.  And even liquid yeast would surely benefit from eating a liter of actual wort as opposed to nothing (White) or the small nutrient package (Wyeast). 

Fred - you do really high grav beers.....ever make high grav starters?

 

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