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DoppleBock!!

Berkyjay

Grandmaster Brewer
Joined
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So my friend Brad (SFBeerGuy) and I will be doing our first Lagers this weekend.  I will be doing a Dopplebock and I am looking for some suggestions for the mash.  I have read a lot about how German breweries use decoction mashing to achieve their malty flavors.  But since I do not have this method available to me I was hoping to get some suggestions.  My grain bill is as follows:

3 gallon batch:

4.5 lbs Munich
0.5 lbs Dark Munich
1.0 lbs Pilsner
0.75 lbs Crystal 20
0.75 lbs Crystal 60
0.25 lbs Cara-Munic
0.25 lbs Chocolate Malt

Shooting for a OG of 1.066 and a FG of 1.020

Thanks,

James
 
The easiest way to get the flavors of a Decoction is to take a gallon of thick part of the grist from the MT and boil it for 30-45 min. Make sure you stir constantly making sure not to scorch the grains and add water when needed. I usually do this as a Mash Out if it fits the style. You may want to extend the boil out an extra 30-60 min to get to get some extra caramel flavors.

My 2c. on the recipe
The recipe seems very dark for the style with all that chocolate, I would cut back on the Chocolate. Have you thought of using Golden Promise as a base malt instead of the Munich or maybe even a split of the two and then you could drop the Pils all together and add more of the Dark Munich.

What kind of yeast and hops are you going with?

Cheers
Preston
 
I have heard of using melanoidin malt as a substitute of doing a decoction.
Anyone familiar with this?
 
My friend started decocting with great results, and recently tried a step mash to achieve the same maltiness with less effort.  He did 30 mins at 145F and then 60 mins at 156F and said it was nicely malty at kegging.  He also uses melanoidan malt to increase the maltiness, as do I if the style calls for it. 

If the recipe is flexible at this late time, I'd suggest some Vienna in lieu of some of the Munich, to drive the toastiness.  And for the chocolate malt, while 3% is not a huge amount, chocolate is strong, so you may wish to do something to reduce its power.  Lightly crack it, don't mash it, only sparge it, or cold steep it prior and just take the flavored water into the boil.  Or reduce the amount.  You want just a hint and not the roasted or acrid/burnt note that deeply roasted grains can impart. 

http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style05.php#1c
 
UselessBrewing said:
The easiest way to get the flavors of a Decoction is to take a gallon of thick part of the grist from the MT and boil it for 30-45 min. Make sure you stir constantly making sure not to scorch the grains and add water when needed. I usually do this as a Mash Out if it fits the style. You may want to extend the boil out an extra 30-60 min to get to get some extra caramel flavors.

My 2c. on the recipe
The recipe seems very dark for the style with all that chocolate, I would cut back on the Chocolate. Have you thought of using Golden Promise as a base malt instead of the Munich or maybe even a split of the two and then you could drop the Pils all together and add more of the Dark Munich.

What kind of yeast and hops are you going with?

Cheers
Preston

Unfortunately the recipe is set as the grains have been purchased and milled.  Fortunately I was shooting for a darker brew...shooting for a Celebrator style color. 

Interesting tip on boiling a part of the grist.  It's like a semi-decoction.
 
MaltLicker said:
My friend started decocting with great results, and recently tried a step mash to achieve the same maltiness with less effort.  He did 30 mins at 145F and then 60 mins at 156F and said it was nicely malty at kegging.  He also uses melanoidan malt to increase the maltiness, as do I if the style calls for it. 

If the recipe is flexible at this late time, I'd suggest some Vienna in lieu of some of the Munich, to drive the toastiness.  And for the chocolate malt, while 3% is not a huge amount, chocolate is strong, so you may wish to do something to reduce its power.  Lightly crack it, don't mash it, only sparge it, or cold steep it prior and just take the flavored water into the boil.  Or reduce the amount.  You want just a hint and not the roasted or acrid/burnt note that deeply roasted grains can impart. 

http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style05.php#1c

This is more in line with what I was thinking of doing.  One of the benefits of doing a 3 gallon batch is that I have plenty of room in the mash tun to do a good step infusion. 

As for the melanoidan, unfortunately the brew supply store I use does not carry this.  That is what the cara-munich and dark munich are in there....to try and compensate.  The tips for the chocolate malt are great, I didn't even think that the chocolate would give me way too much roastiness for the style.  Unfortunately all of the grains are already milled together....so next batch I will keep them separated.  Thanks for the tips.

James
 
Berkyjay said:
So my friend Brad (SFBeerGuy) and I will be doing our first Lagers this weekend.  I will be doing a Dopplebock and I am looking for some suggestions for the mash.  I have read a lot about how German breweries use decoction mashing to achieve their malty flavors.  But since I do not have this method available to me I was hoping to get some suggestions.  My grain bill is as follows:

3 gallon batch:

4.5 lbs Munich
0.5 lbs Dark Munich
1.0 lbs Pilsner
0.75 lbs Crystal 20
0.75 lbs Crystal 60
0.25 lbs Cara-Munic
0.25 lbs Chocolate Malt

Shooting for a OG of 1.066 and a FG of 1.020

Thanks,

James

Why is this not available to you?  Just curious.  All you really need is a vessel to boil in and some fire.

I think your choice of grain is fine.  It IS a dopplebock.  I know the chocolate malt I get doesn't have a very "roast" flavor.

I do decoction mashes 90% of the time.  Yes it takes more time.  Yes it is absolutely worth the effort.

*edit**

My last Bock  (10 gal)

25# of Weyerman Munich malt (10 SRM)
2 # of Crystal Malt 20L (20SRM)
3 # Weyerman Pilsner malt (2 SRM)
.5# Acidulated Malt (3 SRM)
.5# Chocolate Malt (350 SRM)
2.5 oz. of Tradition Hops (6% A.A.)

Used Lager Decoction per Beersmith

 
VonMessa said:
Berkyjay said:
So my friend Brad (SFBeerGuy) and I will be doing our first Lagers this weekend.  I will be doing a Dopplebock and I am looking for some suggestions for the mash.  I have read a lot about how German breweries use decoction mashing to achieve their malty flavors.  But since I do not have this method available to me I was hoping to get some suggestions.  My grain bill is as follows:

3 gallon batch:

4.5 lbs Munich
0.5 lbs Dark Munich
1.0 lbs Pilsner
0.75 lbs Crystal 20
0.75 lbs Crystal 60
0.25 lbs Cara-Munic
0.25 lbs Chocolate Malt

Shooting for a OG of 1.066 and a FG of 1.020

Thanks,

James

Why is this not available to you?  Just curious.  All you really need is a vessel to boil in and some fire.

I think your choice of grain is fine.  It IS a dopplebock.  I know the chocolate malt I get doesn't have a very "roast" flavor.

I do decoction mashes 90% of the time.  Yes it takes more time.  Yes it is absolutely worth the effort.

*edit**

My last Bock  (10 gal)

25# of Weyerman Munich malt (10 SRM)
2 # of Crystal Malt 20L (20SRM)
3 # Weyerman Pilsner malt (2 SRM)
.5# Acidulated Malt (3 SRM)
.5# Chocolate Malt (350 SRM)
2.5 oz. of Tradition Hops (6% A.A.)

Used Lager Decoction per Beersmith

Honestly I just don't have the time nor the will to go through with the whole process.  Maybe one day I will set aside more time to give the process a go.
 
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