Author Topic: Setting up ingredients for new user.  (Read 8180 times)

Offline ExcitableBoy

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Setting up ingredients for new user.
« on: February 26, 2010, 03:29:50 PM »
I am setting up and adding my first recipes to BS.

Some of my recipes require small amounts of specialty grains.  I am able to add 10 oz by doing the math but it would be easier if I could covert the measuring units to oz for specialty grains and pounds for the bulk malts.  Is there anyway to do this?

I am also adding  some apple cider products.  I was looking at putting apple juice and concentrate under misc but it does not give a sugar content.  When I look to add it to Grains it wants me to use lbs, that is even more complicated than adding .625 lbs of specialty grains.   What is the best way to add these types of ingredients to the list?

My grain prices at my LHBS store is more like $1.75/lb and up is there a faster way to change this price in the ingredients list or just change it with each entry?

Thanks 

Offline Pirate Point Brewer

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Re: Setting up ingredients for new user.
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 03:00:16 AM »
Excitableboy,

If you are still looking for help, we will be glad to try.

In BeerSmith, at the top to the far right, next to the <Help> icon, is the <Options> icon.
In the <Options> dialogue box, select the Units tab.  In the Units dialogue box, the second entry down is Grains/Extract. The Units dialogue box will allow you to enter the units you wish to use for each commodity and just to the right you may select the increment that you wish for you additions.

As for the Apple Juice, you can enter it as a Grain/Extract.  Along the left side of the BeerSmith screen, you will see a directory window of all of your files and BeerSmiths database files. Just under Calendar View is Grains/Extract database. This is the table of all your fermentables. On the menu bar, select <Insert> and from the drop down box select Grains/Extract. This will open a dialogue box that will allow you to enter all of the data about the Apple Juice. I would enter it as an Adjunct. This is also where you can set the price and if you wish, your inventory level. Once done, it will always be available as an ingrediant when building a recipe.

We can't help you with the details about Apple Juice as we do not have that information. Perhaps by us re activating this thread, some other user will be able to help you with that information.

We hope this helps get you going in a better way.

Preston
In Fall and Winter, we burn wood in the fireplace and brew beer.
In Spring & Summer, we're on the water or walking the beach!
 Then back at the dock we create a reason to brew!

jdsangster

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Re: Setting up ingredients for new user.
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 01:11:46 PM »
I'm dealing with a similar issue to this.

I'm trying to add Welch's Passionfruit Cocktail as an adjunct. I know it's got a SG of 1.2 when still in concentrate form. When I try to add the 1.2 the program keeps reverting it back to 1.046.



Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong here or how to make it accept the proper SG? If i were to hazard a guess it would be that the 1.2 is outside the range of what the program sees as acceptable. Normally 1.2 is insane, but this is a concentrate. I'd really like for the program to accept the correct value so that the gravity calculations for recipes that use this will be correct.

Offline Pirate Point Brewer

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Re: Setting up ingredients for new user.
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 02:22:34 PM »
jdsangster,

Wow guy, I'm not a brew chemist and don't pretend to be. My only concern is that 1.046 is the gravity of 1 lb pure sugar in one gallon of water. Somehow I think your conversion for the SG of the concentrate is off in its units. How did you determine 1.2??  Are you converting from Brix??

Preston
In Fall and Winter, we burn wood in the fireplace and brew beer.
In Spring & Summer, we're on the water or walking the beach!
 Then back at the dock we create a reason to brew!

jdsangster

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Re: Setting up ingredients for new user.
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 02:38:45 PM »
I was told by a guy on my homebrew club forums that 1.200 is the SG of the concentrate and if it's diluted in a 3:1 per instructions it's 1.050. I don't dilute it before I add it to the batch though.

I have a can of one of the concentrates sitting out on the counter waiting for it to hit room temp. I'll check it with my hydrometer when it hits temp. This stuff is Very very dense though. I mean consider it's 11.5 fluid oz and 222g sugar.

When making sweet pickles in a big jar i routinely cram 5 lbs of corn sugar into a gallon jar filled with pickles, and vinegar and it all dissolves. 1 lb of sugar in 1 gallon ain't nuthin! lol, heck. the braggot I just put down last week had a SG of 1.090!

I will check the 1.2 with my hydrometer this evening and see if it's correct. Heck. I'm not even sure my hydrometer goes that high. lol I'm at work at the moment so I can't check. The guy i got the info from is a AHA gold metal winner for meads though so I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about :)

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Setting up ingredients for new user.
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2010, 03:35:12 PM »
I was told by a guy on my homebrew club forums that 1.200 is the SG of the concentrate and if it's diluted in a 3:1 per instructions it's 1.050. I don't dilute it before I add it to the batch though.

BeerSmith may well have the limitation you've discovered, but if you're trying to determine the "impact" of the new ingredient, you'd need to calculate the PPG of it.  That's why sugar is 1.046 and possibly why BSmith doesn't go higher than that.  All the malts and sugars have a PPG associated with them, and BSmith uses that to figure out the impact on gravity, per a volume of water/wort (per gallon being the standard).

Since you are indeed diluting that 222g of sugar across all XX gallons of liquid, it will probably end up being something you could create as a new ingredient. 

If there are 453 grams in a pound, then the 222g of sugar there equals only 49% of one pound, or roughly 8 oz sugar.  One-half pound sugar in one gallon would be approx. 1.023, but you're spreading that fixed amount of sugar across the entire boil volume of XX (6.5 gallons??), or 1.003 potential points per gallon (PPG).  It's the concentration per unit of volume that determines the PPG.  Hope that helps.

The other question here is whether the 222g is "real" cane sugar or HFCS which may have a different PPG itself.    http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-5.html

jdsangster

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Re: Setting up ingredients for new user.
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2010, 04:13:56 PM »
It's HFCS for sure. It's the first ingredient on the label. :)

jdsangster

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Re: Setting up ingredients for new user.
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 07:15:44 AM »
BeerSmith may well have the limitation you've discovered, but if you're trying to determine the "impact" of the new ingredient, you'd need to calculate the PPG of it.  That's why sugar is 1.046 and possibly why BSmith doesn't go higher than that.  All the malts and sugars have a PPG associated with them, and BSmith uses that to figure out the impact on gravity, per a volume of water/wort (per gallon being the standard).

Ok, the link you gave was a bit confusing but I did a little research and found this:

http://brewadvice.com/questions/655/wiki-how-do-you-calculate-original-gravity

If i read that right, to calculate the PPG I would take 1 can of extract and water to 1 gallon and take the SG. It looks like that's the "Potential SG" rating that Beersmith needs. Does that sound about right?

That article is awesome. I think i'm going to use it in a homebrewing class i'm developing.

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Setting up ingredients for new user.
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 12:26:28 PM »
If i read that right, to calculate the PPG I would take 1 can of extract and water to 1 gallon and take the SG. It looks like that's the "Potential SG" rating that Beersmith needs. Does that sound about right?

I believe so, but only if you want just the SG of that one gallon of liquid.  As soon as you add that one gallon to your entire batch, it will be further diluted, decreasing the SG and PPG.  Imagine mixing it properly and having a juice cocktail of 1.050, and then imagine adding that to 6.5 gallons of pure water.  The ~7 gallons would now be ~1.005. 

Now, siphon exactly one gallon into a jug, and measure the SG.  It will be ~1.005 SG.  The PPG would also be ~1.005, assuming the volume of liquid remains exactly one gallon. 

The PPG of cane sugar is 1.046 only at a concentration of exactly one pound of sugar to exactly one gallon water.  Measured exactly, the SG of the resulting liquid should be 1.046 SG.  Measured sloppily either high or low, and the SG could be anything.  But the PPG of sugar has not changed:  it's always 1.046. 

PPG and SG are both measures dependent on the concentration in a certain volume. 

What you are seeking is the PPG of that specific tube of sugar when mixed with your entire boil volume, b/c that is the impact it will have on your specific SG in the boiler. 

jdsangster

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Re: Setting up ingredients for new user.
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2010, 04:06:28 PM »
What you are seeking is the PPG of that specific tube of sugar when mixed with your entire boil volume, b/c that is the impact it will have on your specific SG in the boiler. 

Since I always and only make 5 gallon batches (to date anyway) i should find the SG of adding one tube of that sugar to 5 gallons of water? Typically I only boil with 3 gallons and then top off to 5 gallons with water. Ultimately it's a 5 gallon batch though.

man, this stuff is confusing.

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Setting up ingredients for new user.
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2010, 01:12:49 PM »
That's even tougher, b/c it would a higher concentration in 3.0 gallons, then boiled and even further concentrated, and then diluted to 5.0 gallons. 

How about this?  Make the batch using one tube, with all the other ingredients having a known PPG in BSmith.  BSmith will calculate a pre-boil gravity based on the known items.  Measure the actual pre-boil gravity, and  other than equipment settings issues, you would have the PPG of the sugar can across the 3.0 gallons pre-boil volume?   That should get you close if your equipment settings are sound.  Then your boil-off rate would account for the loss of water to the final volume. 

Offline Pirate Point Brewer

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Re: Setting up ingredients for new user.
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2010, 06:22:33 AM »
 
Quote
The other question here is whether the 222g is "real" cane sugar or HFCS which may have a different PPG itself.    http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-5.html

I did a search on the fermentability of fructose. Most of the papers were very technical but one had graphs. They indicate that fructose is not very fermentable but I couldn't find a ppg. Perhaps using the graph, you can develop a percentage to sucrose or maltose and estimate a ppg.

http://www.regional.org.au/au/abts/2001/t4/foxr.htm

Preston
In Fall and Winter, we burn wood in the fireplace and brew beer.
In Spring & Summer, we're on the water or walking the beach!
 Then back at the dock we create a reason to brew!