Flat Beer

I have been trying to make an all malt beer using 2 x Coopers Larger
1 Kg Saunder's Liquid malt in a 50 Lt. CC for a week, then bulk primed into stubbies. I used Coopers Light Dry Malt to prime with ( using Beersmith it gave me an estimated weight of 432.2gm for the batch . The result after is a smooth beer that is only slightly gassed.
I hav read after the fact "Finally, the all-malt purist may want to prime with malt extract, either dried (+30%) or liquid (+40%). Again the results may be variable, depending on the type of malt and the amount of water present. More involved methods include adding unfermented or actively fermenting wort (krausening); details can be found in good brewing books. " > http://www.brewrats.org/  Bulk priming.
Did the CC Kill Some of the yeast ?
Do I Need to just add the extra 30% LDM?
Or both?
Any help would be appericated

SALUD
4x

VB,
  There are several possibilities:

  You need to make sure the carbonation volumes are in the right area.  For example, many English beers are served at 2.0 volumes or less, but in fact most US consumers would say the beer is very flat at this level.  For a lager, something in the 2.5-2.8 range is more reasonable.

 There is (unfortunately) quite a bit of variation in dry malt extracts, which could account for your issues.  Another problem is that older dry malt extracts tend to oxidize over time which also can reduce their effectiveness.  You may have to add some additional malt to compensate for these.

 I don't think cold conditioning killed the yeast unless your refrigerator was very cold (near freezing or freezing).  I do recommend conditioning at higher temperature after you bottle for a few weeks for the carbonation to complete.  At cold temperature (after bottling) you might not achieve full carbonation.  Once fully carbonated you can then move it to a cold clime for further aging.

Also - 432 gm of dry malt looks like quite a bit - how large is your batch?

Cheers!
Brad

HI Brad,
The batch that I made up was 50Lt. The carbination level was set to 2.4.
If the yeast is not the problem then I'm left with the maltand testing each batch  >>"If you want to do your own tests on the relative effectiveness of various priming agents, you need to know: i) its strength at increasing specific gravity, and ii) its fermentability. To calculate the increase in specific gravity, take a litre (quart) of fresh water and dissolve the priming agent at the rate of 120 g/l (1 lb/US gall). For sucrose, this should give a solution with a gravity of 1047. Other sugars will tend to give lower values. The fermentability of simple sugars including honey is very close to 100%. Priming agents containing more complex sugars such as malt are not fully fermentable and the exact value will have to be estimated as best you can, but 80% is probably a good starting point.

To see how to use these numbers, take the example of a dried malt extract which gives a gravity of 1042 when dissolved at the above rate and assume its fermentability is 80%. If used for priming at the same rate as sucrose, the carbonation level will be 42 x 80/(47 x 100) = 0.71 times that with sucrose. To get the same carbonation level as with sucrose, it would have to be used at a rate that is 1/0.71 = 1.4 times larger"
http://www.brewrats.org/  Types of priming sugar
The 80% used in the calculation is still is still an estemate.
Its a pitty because the malted Larger tasted very good, just under gassed.
Has anyone else come up against the same problem and how did you rectify it?
Salud
VB

I have not had reports of this particular problem, but I do know that it is one reason many people use sugar as opposed to malt.

I also note that if you try the carbonation calculator, BeerSmith does approximate your rule of thumb in that the dried malt estimate is about 1.4 times the sugar estimate in most cases.

Cheers!
Brad

Thanks Brad,
Iguess I'll have to work it out.
Is there a way to calculate what might be needed to added(dextrose/sugar) to this beer if the carbination level is about 1.5? (make it up and then add it by syringe)

Salud
VB

Well After about 4.5 weeks the beer is starting to gass to a reasonable level. The leap from sugar (sugar takes about 3-7 days to gas here in QLD) to LDM in bulk priming was a big one When I have had no previous experience in bulk priming with LDM.
I would estimate given further time it will turn out very good

Salud
VB ;D

VB,
 I'm glad it is working out OK for you now!  It can take longer to prime with DME than sugar.

 Also - make sure your DME is fresh.  In some cases DME can get oxidized which leads to lower fermentation rates.

Cheers!
Brad