Author Topic: Sanitizing Questions  (Read 9607 times)

Offline Djehuty

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Sanitizing Questions
« on: April 19, 2010, 12:00:32 PM »
As the title of the post suggests, I have some questions about sanitizing my brewing equipment.

I've been using One Step sanitizer, which is one of those oxygen cleaners that are all the rage right now.  I've read that it needs to be in contact with the surface to be sanitized for two minutes.  My first question is, does that mean I have to fill every bucket and carboy with the stuff and let it sit?  Or is it sufficient to fill them partway and then wash the sides with a sponge (or shake the carboy)?  I've been doing that with no problems so far, but then I've only made three and a half batches of beer.

The second question is, can I substitute Oxy-Clean or another of those oxygen bleaches for One Step?  I was about to head down to the basement and transfer my current beer in progress from the bucket to a carboy, but I realized that I'm completely out of sanitizer.  I'd rather get this done soon than wait a week to get an order shipped from my brewing supplier.

And the final question is, should I be using something else?  Or will One Step do the job?

Thanks! :)

Offline SOGOAK

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 01:06:00 PM »
I hear one step is not a true sanatizer.

Most use iodophor or star san for a no rinse sanitizer and some use pbw and oxyclean for the heavy duty stuff.

I have used iodophor for 1.5yrs.  I like it, but it only sanitizes and doesn't remove anything without a brush. 
Good Recipe, Good Ingredients, Good Procedure, Good Sanitation = Good Brew.

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 02:32:00 PM »
ditto.  OxyClean/PBW for cleaning.  Depending on how dirty/stubborn, the more PBW I use. 

Star-San for sanitizer.  One gallon at a time, and with it, you can put 5-8 oz in a carboy and swirl it around several times before draining and filling with wort/beer.

Offline Maine Homebrewer

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 04:05:15 PM »
For cleaning I use hot water, towels (the same things I used as dish/kitchen rags back in the restaurant days, with the blue stripe and everything), and a copper pad for the brewpot.
I used to sanitize with idophor for metal (kegs) and bleach for everything else, but now I use Star-San for all sanitizing. 
It's easier, has no odor, and doesn't stain.
"To alcohol! The cause of - and solution to - all of life's problems!" -Homer Simpson

Offline SleepySamSlim

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 09:30:22 PM »
StarSan is just dead simple to use

I always use a non-scented no-dye dish soap for anything brew cleaning related -- I keep some PBW on hand for soaking really bad crap

Its also the small things
- I use certain sponge/scrubbies only for brew cleaning ... don't want any possible food particles - gunk mixed in (I cut the corners off of brew scrubbies to mark them)
- When doing any brew activity (brewing - racking - bottling) I get out 2 clean dish towels to only be used for that activity

Keep in mind that bleach can be bad for stainless steel !  Just google it
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Offline Djehuty

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 06:07:41 AM »
But is all that really necessary?  If One Step is basically OxyClean, then (as I understand it) it works by creating hydrogen peroxide, which eradicates stains and living things and then degrades into water and some excess oxygen.  It kills bacteria.  Why would a second step be needed?

Offline RandomSF

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 06:58:09 AM »
Used correctly and immediately before reuse, the second step is not necessary.  That's why they can sell the product that way.  But most people clean their equipment and put it away.  Good manufacturing practices include sanitizing before the next use to remove anything that may have floating around, even if the equipment was kept closed.  I can even imagine that no cleaning or sanitizing at all and then making another batch in the same equipment might work.  So it comes down to what might work versus what is best practice.

Offline DVDaniels

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 11:28:19 AM »
I always use generic oxyclean for the cleaning process and Star San right before I put anything in any brewing equipment.

Better to be safe than sorry.

Also beware of the real Oxyclean. They put perfumes in it now. Bought a 5 lb box and discovered that. Thats why I get the cheap knock off at the local dollar store.

Another thing I have learned is to mix small amounts of the star san and put in to a spray bottle. Just spray to cover the surface of anything. Works wonders and really goes a long way by doing that. I have had the same 32oz bottle for the last 8 months.

Offline Djehuty

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2010, 01:06:12 PM »
Oh, well, I guess the beer will be staying in that bucket for a while longer.  Thanks for the info. :)

Offline CR

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2010, 08:35:27 PM »
Hello: My name is CR and I used Chlorox for years.


I converted to Star San and now holy angels  kiss me while I sleep.

Offline Djehuty

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 03:01:25 PM »
I'm not sure I want to be indecently assaulted by celestial beings....  :o

Also, I have another question.  Would something called Clorox Anywhere work?  It's supposed to kill 99.9% of all bacteria without leaving behind unpleasantness you don't want to eat.

I'm concerned about the harsh chemicals in something like Star-San, that's the only reason I haven't ordered it yet.  Also because I need to shift this stuff out of the bucket now-ish (it was going to be today, but I didn't have a chance), and it'll take a week or so for anything I order to reach me, so what I get for next time is moot for what's in the bucket.

Offline SleepySamSlim

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2010, 11:12:15 PM »
I am no chemist but last time I checked, chlorine (as in chlorine bleach) is a deadly chemical. I do not believe bleach is a food safe no rinse sanitizer like StarSan. The chemicals in StarSan are there to create (when properly mixed) a solution that has a pH of 3 which kills 99.9% of bacteria. And its a food safe  no rinse sanitizer ...... use what you want but this stuff is slick.
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Offline CR

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2010, 07:56:13 AM »
Would something called Clorox Anywhere work?  It's supposed to kill 99.9% of all bacteria without leaving behind unpleasantness you don't want to eat.

http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/products/msds/anywhere/cloroxanywherehardsurfacedailysanitizingstainremover02-10.pdf
The MSDS is Starkly  unhelpful.

But it does say bleach odor so I'm sort of guessing it's an 80 PPM chlorine solution with some adjustment for hypochlorous acid.

Which, if I am correct, is a phenomenal  wast of money

You can make a stone cold killer yourself from
5 gallons water
1 ounce store brand bleach
1 ounce vinegar

That is actually no rinse for food & brewing applications  and will kill pretty much everything  while not having the strength to denature chromataphores.


and
Quote
I am no chemist but last time I checked, chlorine (as in chlorine bleach) is a deadly chemical. I do not believe bleach is a food safe no rinse sanitizer like StarSan.

Well yes bleach  is a perfectly safe and no rinse sanitizer.  But you gotta adjust the hypochlorous acid content and get the chlorine to 80 PPM. Which means you gotta use the above formula.  Use that and you are golden.

Most people who think that they can use bleach as a sanitizer or sterilant often end up only denaturing the chromatphores and not killing the things they want to kill.  Ya gotta adjust the hypochlorous acid in bleach to get the "deadly chemical" to which  you referred.

Not saying it won't kill you if you drink it. But, good luck getting enough down to accomplish that deed. 
Shotgun is way far easier.
There's bleach in your drinking water, bleach in your swimming pool. there's bleach all over the place in daily life. It's a pretty common compound.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 08:03:13 AM by CR »

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Sanitizing Questions
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2010, 02:12:36 PM »
Also beware of the real Oxyclean. They put perfumes in it now.

Another thing I have learned is to mix small amounts of the star san and put in to a spray bottle. Just spray to cover the surface of anything. Works wonders and really goes a long way by doing that. I have had the same 32oz bottle for the last 8 months.

This led me to check mine, and I have a "Free" version under the sink, which has no perfumes or scents added.  It has a lime green cover.  (I'm sure they charge extra to exclude the perfumes.)

If I did the math right, Star San is 18 cents per gallon, and does last a while in a sealed jug.  I can usually make a gallon on brew day and use that through transfers and bottling before needing to make another on next brew day.  The spray bottle works great for wiping out the pots before using again.