Pitching Preferences

  Is it preferred to use a simple malt extract to do your starter or should you use beersmith to make a mini-recipe for your starter?  I am brewing all-grain 5 gallon batches.  I would assume that one vial of liquid yeast is not enough.  Therefore, should I go ahead and take my 2000ml flask and use 2 yeast packs in my starters?  Thanks!

An all malt extract non-hopped wort is all you need for a starter.

This is one of the couple things I do in metric because it makes it really easy.  100 grams of dme to 1 liter of water to make the right concentration wort for a starter.  The easy 10 to 1 ratio makes it easy to scale up and down.

To figure out what size starter and how many vials you need, I highly recommend the yeast pitching rate calculator on mrmalty.com.  Plug in the batch size, gravity and starter type and it will tell you what size starter you need.

What he said. Some suggest giving your yeast a taste of the real thing by using ingredients that will be in your recipe. Maybe I'm speaking rookie here but that sounds overboard with negligible results. DME, boiling water and yeast just feels right.

According to Mr. Malty I am always under-pitching. My inexperience says that this is no big deal either. Yeasties seem happy and the beer is great. Who knows.

@ Stadelman: Have you experienced a major difference in behavior or quality when you started using Mr. Malty? The reason I ask is because I'm cheap. When making a lager I can't bring myself to buying three vials of WLP838. Of course, if I was really that thrifty I should start washing and reusing my yeast :-[  After reading several good books I'm only beginning to scratch the surface in learning the science behind yeast. Is there a good source we can use to focus on yeast?

Thanks!  If Mr Malty says that I need two vials of yeast, it is ok to pitch 2 both vials in a liter of water?

I think it makes a difference, especially with big beers.

I tend to pitch at or slightly below the suggested rate.  I also picked up a stir plate, to make starter sizes more manageable.

mhenry41h said:

Thanks!  If Mr Malty says that I need two vials of yeast, it is ok to pitch 2 both vials in a liter of water?

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The calculator should also tell you how large of a starter to make. 

So, it says:

with starter I need 1 vial
without starter, I need 2.3 vials

Do you think simply using 2 would suffice?

Personally, I would make the starter and use 1 vial.  It get's the yeast up and going and saves a bit of money.

But, if I was going to skip the starter, I would just pitch 2 vials.

Ziggybrew said:

...  After reading several good books I'm only beginning to scratch the surface in learning the science behind yeast. Is there a good source we can use to focus on yeast?

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If you are looking to learn all about yeast I strongly suggest a book that just came out: "Yeast the practical guide to Beer Fermentation"

The book was written by Chris White (Owner of WhiteLabs) and Jamil Zainasheff (My Malty). It is a great reference on all things regarding yeast.

You can get it on Amazon for about 13 bucks

  Do you think a 2000ml flask would be sufficient for the starter or should I use something bigger?  I've been pitching smack packs but I think the starter will give me better results.  Sorry for the noob dwelling on the subject! 

Just a couple of thoughts. 

The best source of info I've found so far is the book on Yeast by Dr. Chris White.  He's the White in White Lab yeast.  He also reccomends using the MrMalty calculator.

The comments about starter wort ...... using malt is important because using sugar grows yeast that won't ferment maltose sugar ... so no beer.  I also understand that minerals like zinc and and other stuff like fan are important. Wort from malt usually has enough. You can buy supplements if you are concerned.  Oxygen is also critical. Thats why stirplate results are so good. I haven't read or heard anything that says DME or LME is unacceptable. Just be sure you are using high quality extract isn't cut with alot of sugar.

I'm also cheap, so instead of buying two vials, just make two starters. One after the next. Its call propagation.

Get the book!  I've read it three times and I still find something I missed. I'm not setting up a yeast lab or anything like that but I do wash and repitch ... alot so I want to be sure I'm getting good results.

Preston

mhenry41h said:

   Do you think a 2000ml flask would be sufficient for the starter or should I use something bigger?  I've been pitching smack packs but I think the starter will give me better results.  Sorry for the noob dwelling on the subject! 

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A 2000ml flask should work just great. I suggest making the starter about 3-4 days before you brew. Also to mirror what others have said a stir plate is really really helpful as well. You can build your own for under $20. Search youtube for stir-plates and you will see a few DIY versions.

Thanks guys!

I agree with the few post ...... Mr.malty.com cheap free and easy to use .... but as a whole 1.5 qt to 2 liter starter and your going to be doing great

As soon as I finish the last few chapters on my current book, looking forward to diving into Chris Whites book. Thanks for the recommendation. Yeast is so critical and mysterious. Worth learning about.

If I recall correctly, both smack pack and WL vials have enough healthy yeast to handle 5g of around 1.040 wort.  A single package will also ferment a 1.060 beer.  The starter is a mechanism to ensure your yeast are strong, healthy active yeast prepared for the conditions in your green wort.  If you wort is lacking in some basic nutrients, adding some to the starter is OK but unlikely to reap great benefits.  Under pitching can cause some off flavors and under attenuated beer.  Given enough time and conditions though, the beers are usually OK.  What Mr Malty focuses on is how to make award winning beers.  One of the key elements is adequate yeast pitches and fermentation conditions that favor healthy, effective yeast production and ultimately creating great beers. 

Many homebrewers underestimate the significance of the fermentation which is surprising since a vast majority of process of making beer is the fermentation.  Pitching adequate amounts of healthy active yeast is vital to making good beer.  Having the most desirable conditions for fermentation is key to making good beer.  More than just converting sugar to alcohol, the yeast need to be strong and abundant to break down some of their own by products like acetaldehyde, diacetyl or a combination of underpitching effects like DMS (dimethyl sulfide) production from bacteria.