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hop balance

lowell

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Nov 10, 2007
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I brew a clone of Rogue's Brutal Bitter that was published in Zymurgy magazine. The problem is it is always more bitter than the commercial version. I have brewed it 4 times - always the same
The recipe calls for 11.50 lbs MO
.1/2 lb Crystal malt 10L
.1/2lb Crystal malt 40L
1.50 oz crystal hops @ 60 min
1.50 oz Crystal hops@30 min
1.50 oz Crystal hops @15 min
1.50 oz Crystal hops @ knockout

The recipe says that amounts to 59 IBU when I enter it into it says 44 IBU  The boil is for 90 min. mash at 150 deg. Batch sparge with 190 deg water. OG 1.064 FG 1.012
Any suggestions
 
Im not sure if Rogue uses whole hops or hop pellets?  Is there any chance that one particular style of using hops can provide more or less IBU's?  One would assume that there has to be some variation in the final or theoretical IBU's depending on whole or pellets?
 
Keep in mind as well that the Alpha Acid content in the hops always varies. For instance if you are looking to match bitterness then using 1.5 oz of Crystal hops you want to make sure the Alpha Acid matches.

1.5 oz of Crystal @ 8%AA will be more bitter than 1.5oz @ 6.5%AA.

Also remember that age can have an effect as well. Try saving some of a batch and aging it for different time frames. You may find that when you are drinking it really fresh that the hops are more pronounced whereas if you let it age a few months it might tone down a bit.
 
The recipe in Zymurgy used Crystal pellet hops at 5% AA and I used Crystal whole leaf at 4.6% AA. So the beer should be less bitter plus I upped the grain bill by 1lb MO.
 
Your water profile affects the hop bitterness.  If you water is higher in sulfates and/or sodium, that will make the beer more bitter.  You need to account for that in every recipe.  Without adjusting for the water, you could make you own scale based on your system.  So the 44 IBU on your system is too bitter so scale down the longer hop additions to sat, 35 and see if you prefer that. 
 
Great bunch of suggestions for you so far!!!

I would only add Effecency.  If you are makeing an all grain recipe, effeciency changes will cause you to get an OG that is different than the value you used in calculateing the IBU's. If the OG is lower than expected, then the actual IBU will be higher than planned. The opposite is true if you get more OG than planned. To really nail it, you either have to correct your OG after the mash or input the actual value and recalculate the hops.

Preston
 
I will toss in the Hop Utilization Model.  Did the recipe specify Rager or Tinseth?  BeerSmith defaults to Tinseth and many sources use Rager.  Depending on the hop schedule, they can yield quite different numbers.

When I'm trying to copy a recipe, I usually enter their recipe verbatim, and tweak BeerSmith until I duplicate the recipe's output statistics (OG, FG, IBU, SRM, etc.)  I write those down and then apply my equipment profile and make any ingredient changes, and then adjust quantities to restore the goals. 

Efficiency is key, as PPB said.  My lautering efficiency is 80%, but my overall efficiency is poor b/c I toss a gallon of gunk from the boiler. 
 
In my limited experience I have had a few beers that I thought were a little to bitter or hoppy than I expected. It sat for three more weeks and it mellowed and blended. Very tasty. Just a thought.
 
MaltLicker - how do you create a recipe without an equipment profile in BS 2?

I would like to try as you suggested, adding the recipe, then the equipment piece.
 
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