Efficiencies

I'm sure this has probably been discussed but does anyone have any tips on getting better efficiencies? 
On normal gravity batches I'm usually around 65% and higher gravity batches I can't break 50%.  I batch sparge for its simplicity but I never feel like I'm sparging enough.  When I'm only brewing 5 gallon batches I can't have 10 gallons of runoff.
If I changed to more complex methods would it help?
I am careful with my temps times and water volume according to beersmith but beersmith is silent on the amount of sparge water to use.
Help! Its frustrating to expect a 1.073 weizenbock and end up with a 1.055 dunkleweiss.

My bet is your sparge process is not adequately rinsing the sugars from the grain.  You could also have issues with clumping if the mash is not mixed well.  You can slow down the sparge.  When I take 30 minutes or more, I have much more consistent efficiency. You should be measuring the runoff gravity to see what you are getting.  Over sparging can lead to several issues including lower gravity.  You should have about 6.5 to 7 gallons in the kettle.  Make sure you boiloff rate is correct too. If you are not boiling off as much as you expect, you will have less concentrated wort.  I encourage you to take detailed notes and compare them over time and batches.

Plenty of batchers get 75%, so I'd agree with

tighter grain crush - if you crush at store, have them run it twice

if you crush your own, you might try conditioning grains night before.  Essentially, you spritz them with clean water to rehydrate the husks.  Husks twist off rather than splinter.  Works great.

slower sparging (though with batch you're supposed to be able to just open it up)

check equipment settings - just to verify you are accounting for all losses and have told BSmith about them

verify water chemistry - proper pH and sufficient calcium/magnesium helps ensure conversion

Almost everything needed has been covered. It just all has to be put together on every batch. We were always in the 65% to 70% for a long time. Here are the things we found important to get 85% to 95% into the boiler and 80% to 85% into the fermenter consistently with no real fancy equipment. Always 5.5 gal batches.

1. As said, excellent notes. Know what you did, how, and when. We'll attach a recipe we brewed yesterday and you can see how we organize our notes.

2. Volume control. Measuring and noting volumes is what made the next big difference for us. Using the notes above, we learned to "Tell it Like it is". If we really have 5.75 gal in the pot instead of our target of 5.5 gal. Record it in the efficiency tool as 5.75 gal not the 5.5 gal. (see the efficiency box in the attached recipe). Each pot has a measuring stick (12" copper tube) We have 1 pitcher we use as our std to measure in and mark the stick, bucket, or carboy. Our std pitcher may not be exact but every thing we do matches. That's what is important. Know your equipment and be able to account for all of the liquid collected, evaporated, absorbed, or left behind.

3. Accurate temperature measurements. We have one small "traceable" probe. Everything else is calibrated to that. The "traceable" may not be really accurate but everything else matches. So it is the consistency that is important.

4. S. G. measurements. Use the Hydrometer Adjust Tool. Know the accurate volume being sampled, and the temperature at which the reading was taken. Using the Hydrometer adjust tool, each reading will be comparableto the next as it all adjusted to a standard 60*F temp.

5. The grind. Before the Princess bought us a grinder, we started having the LHBS double grind. This helped. Now with the grinder double grinding isn't needed. We leave it set at the std. .040". We have noted a difference in speed. Since ours isn't geared, we have only 1 live roll. If we grind fast, we mill the hulls into a fine dust that's hard to clear at lauter. We get our best at about 50 rpm. The grind made a small improvement but not nearly as great as 1 through 4 above. If we didn't do 1 through 4, we would never see this small change.

Hope this helps organize all of the great advice given by all above.

Preston

Preston ,
Thanks for the of info this will help me,
How do you calulate effinianceies
Thanks

beercheer4me,

The best explanation and way to learn the how's & why's is to read it from and expert like John Palmer. Below is a link to his rev 1 Book "How To Brew". This is online.
http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-5.html
After you do it long hand a few times you can really appreciate the software solution.

If you open the recipe I attached, then open the "Brewhouse Efficiency" up near the top of the recipe form.
Notice that it has three set of numbers.

Brewhouse Efficiency Based on Target Volume
Efficiency Into Boiler
Efficiency Into Fermenter

I always start in the middle. “Efficiency Into Boiler as when you are brewing, this data is available first. Because you carefully measured you “Pre-Boil Volume” or “Volume Into Boiler”, and because you carefully measured the gravity of the wort AND its temperature, you use the “Hydrometer Adjust” tool on the left side of the screen and correct the gravity to 60*F. Then enter this as “OG Into Boiler”.  If you are following this in the recipe I attached you’ll see we had a Good Day and a Bad Day. It often happens when brewing. Our “Bad Day’, we overshot our sparge volume and collected 7.5 gal rather than the planned 7.25 gal of wort. Our “Good Day”, we did manage to collect a good deal of sugar. Our corrected gravity was 1.037 in 7.50 gal for an efficiency of 94.83% into the boiler. If we had only collected 7.25 gal at the same gravity or Efficiency Into Boiler would have been 91.67%. See how accurate volume, temp, and gravity all fit together!! Change the numbers and you can see this.

After the boil, we again measured the volume, temp, and gravity of the wort we transferred into the fermenter. We again corrected the gravity to 60*F. We enter the gravity up at the top of the box and the volume at the bottom (Brad had something in mind here but darned if I know what). You can see that we did not extend the boil time to correct our volume. If we had, our gravity would have been high than the 1.043 to achieve the same efficiency. (around 1.045). Anyway we record the 5.75 gal and 1.043 for an efficiency of 84.5%.

Anyway, that’s how you use the” Brewhouse Efficiency” button and save a buch of paper!! ;D

You’ll get it!  Maybe pick up John Palmer’s book??

Preston

beercheer4me,

I re-read my post and I didn't tell you about a short cut we use. We bought one of the plastic hydrometer sample cylinders. It's a little bit taller than one of our 1 gallon  pitchers. When the mash is done the liquid temperature of the wort is still 140 or 150*F. That's really too hot for a hydrometer. So we fill the cylinder to our sample line with our wort and then put it in the 1 gal pitcher we always keep set up full of cold water. As we move on through the brew, we keep checking the temperature of the sample in the cylinder until it's 80*F or less. Then we measure the gravity and correct the value using the "Hydometer Adjust" tool. This protects the hydrometer and should be complete long before you need to collect and measure your gravity after the boil. We always collect this sample directly from the fermenter after it is chilled. Again, we measure the temperature of the sample and correct the gravity value.

Preston

My grain comes pre-milled from austinhomebrew.com, but when i look at it seems pretty well milled.
My temps are always between 149 and 157, depending.
I always take my hydometer readings after the wort is chilled to 85 or 90 just before pitching.  My hydrometer adjustment is decidedly unscientific, I usually just add .003-5.
I know my water is pretty hard, the house runs on a water-softener but I get my liquor straight out the well before the softener.
I have heard of some product called "5.7" or something like that, been thinking about trying it.
My volumes are alaways 5.5 gallons to allow for trub loss. 
I think i'll start by getting more accurate with my hydrometer.
However I think that the issue is actual extraction problems because my stouts often end up as porters my tripel comes out like a hoppy belgian pale (good but not right or what was expected.
Thanks for the input guys.

Thanks guys,
This has been very helpfull,,,, I got John Palmer book ,,, it is loaned out,
Here is what I have is a 3 keggle system, using a pico screen,, I just installed the ninety degree s.s. Tubes in each keggle, left about one half inch from bottom, and on the boil kettle added a whirlpool tube to swirl the boil,,,, for boil overs and help with which I think is hot break,,,,, also installed a copper tubing (1/2) with small holes are are space about one inch apart for a shower effect when sparging,,
Thank