SRM value is incorrect

BeerSmith said:

Obviously the losses after the boil take color with them (such as trub losses).

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Brad,

I'm not a PhD, just a lowly aerospace designer however, something about your statement doesn't add up.  It is not 'obvious' to me that losses after the boil take color with them.  Trub can not and does not subtract color from the wort.  Nothing in the processes of Whirlpooling or chilling can remove pigmentation from the wort.  This would require the addition of clear liquid.  The same is true for any post-boil loss in the system. 

Try running a simple experiment.  At the end of the boil, take a sample of wort from the boil kettle and then take another sample at the fermenter.  They will be the same color. 

All I know is that by using Morley (with the final volume of wort), the SRM values are much closer to actual than those produced by Beersmith.  It appears that I'll just have to use these methods to calculate the SRM for my beers.  I'll just include the calculated SRM values in the comments so that I have a record.

I am really trying to help to make this an even better product.

John

Hi,
  The issue is that X amount of MCU color units goes into Y amount of water to produce the color.  The reason for using the post boil volume is that this is the amount of water the MCUs are dropped into.  The trub loss does take some color units with it (in that sense), though I understand that it does not change the color of the beer.

Brad

Heating method and temperature while boiling can also dramatically change the estimated color...
as other calculations, tehy results in ESTIMATIONS more than effective levels, ingredients quality may vary, their aging also, storage and brewing conditions including the brewer's shape  : ...

I would personally never tell that it's the software's fault if my results are different from estimations,
and Beersmith is well designed enough to allow us to adjust it regarding to our actual results. 

BeerSmith said:

Hi,
  The issue is that X amount of MCU color units goes into Y amount of water to produce the color.  The reason for using the post boil volume is that this is the amount of water the MCUs are dropped into.  The trub loss does take some color units with it (in that sense), though I understand that it does not change the color of the beer.

Brad

Click to expand...

Peace.  I don't blame the software for the color and appreciate that it is only an estimate.  I'll keep using Beersmith as it is the best there is!

John

I would just like to add to the discussion here to add that I am finding the predicted SRM significantly lower than the resulting SRM on my first brew using the 2.0 software. I was, however, brewing a red, which is difficult to predict. Past Beersmith programs predicted SRMs with near perfect accuracy for me as well, so I don't know if your formula changed. Additionally, the new in-glass predictor looks cool, but is it equipped with the same color scheme as the previous version? Previous versions seemed to have more nuance. I am just basing this according to my own subjective eyes as well.

I would like to bring this topic to light again, because when I enter the same recipe in ver 1.4 and 2.0, the estimated color in 2.0 is less than 1.4. It just seems that the color calc's would be the same in each version.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why not make the SRM formula selectable, and even customizable, with an options panel similar to the one for bitterness calculation?

-JAI

Not sure that there was ever a response to this and I know it is quite old, but I wanted to add my own observation that the estimated SRM is significantly lower than the actual result. I'm currently planning to do an Eastside Dark clone from BYO magazine's recipe and they predict 24 SRM when BeerSmith predicts 13.9 (they use the "Morey equation" - not sure what Brad uses). BeerSmith doesn't even think the beer with be brown. I know maltsters vary, but I checked in with BYO and that doesn't seem to be it. They recalculated it manually and still came up with 18. Something seems off.

I've had an amber turn out red and a red turn out brown when I've adjusted by recipe to try to get predicted color in line with style, so this isn't isolated.