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Fermenting Lager

ORNATONC

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Need a little help please. I am in the middle of fermenting a lager beer. The first week the fermentation went well. great fermentation @ 50 to 55 degrees. My problem is that after 2 and a half weeks the fermentation is still going every 8 to 10 seconds. It's a San Fran lager. Shouldn't the fermin tation been completed by now? Need I worry? I have taken it out of the 50 to 55 degree temp and put it at room temp the last 24 hours. The ferment er is still going. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
Lager, because of the lower temperature, takes longer than ale. Especially if the starting gravity is high.

I go by color (which I can see being that I ferment in glass), not bubbles. When the brew darkens from the yeast settling, that's my signal to rack.

Just checked downstairs and the brew I started on 1/21 with a gravity of 1.048 is starting to settle, but not enough to rack.  I'll check it again next weekend.

What was your starting gravity? If it's a big beer then it might still be going.

What's the color like? If it's dark (compared to a brew with yeast in suspension) and relatively clear, I'd say it's time to rack.  If it's still milky looking from suspended yeast, I'd say let it go until it's done.
 
I've been taking a stab at brewing pretty decent lagers around 52-54*F using the San Fran Lager WLP810 and found that 21 days is not uncommon to complete for me.  If it's bubbling each 8-10 secs it's probably not ready.  Nothing beats a hydrometer for testing complete fermentation when it does stop burping. 
BTW, since I am able to ferment down to 52, and lager at 38, I also am trying the WLP830 German Lager yeast.  Quite a difference between the two as far as the amount of krausen.  To me the 810 has a faster start and a much more active ferment than the 830, though both completed in approx. 20-22 days.  I've been able to harvest the 810 up to 5-6 times. On my 2 harvest for the 830.
 
Guys thank you very much. You have helped me a great deal. The starting gravity for this Boston Lager is 10.60. Texasdan I to have a German Lager yeast going too. Both beers were brewed one day after each other. The German Yeast finished a week ago. The start gravity  on that was 10.50 and finished at 10.11
 
Same experience here!

@texasdan 
I used WLP830 German Lager for my pilsner the last time fermenting at 44 - 46F. In my notes I called it a German Steam Locomotive: powerful and steady fermentation along the whole process (15-16 days fermentation, 10 days rest). Bottling with fermentation on the bottle at higher temperatures was no problem. It reacted immediately. In addition the taste is very neutral and flocculation works fine.

Regards,
Slurk
 
Hello Slurk:
I would love to be able to ferment at 44-46 consistently, but until I'm able to get a dedicated frig and controller, I'm stuck with a 3G carboy, styrofoam cooler, frozen bottles and radiant barrier.  I'm able to pretty well maintain 50-54 but that's what I get for playing it on the cheap.  I'm lucky my wife allows me to share the frig for lagering.
So far I nor anyone who's sampled by lagers have noticed any off flavors so I haven't been doing a diacetyl rest, but it's something I might try if it will improve my quality.  Right now I ferment @ 52 for the 3 weeks to FG, rack to a slim jim for the 4 week lagering @ 38, and, by the time I get everything ready for bottling, I end up bottling at around 50*F or so. 

Per John Palmer, quote "This rest at the end of primary fermentation consists of raising the temperature of the beer to 55-60 °F for 24 - 48 hours before cooling it down for the lagering period" endquote...
Is this what you are doing, or are you just resting @ 44-46?  Since I'm pretty novice at this any advice is helpful..
 
Hey guys-

I do have 2 lagers going at the same time.(1 Day a part) German lager yeast in a Corona style beer and the San Fran yeast in a Boston Lager style. The German lager yeast fermented out fast and easy. It was the San Fran Lager that took a while. I did take the San Fran out of the fridge to finish when it was on it's 19 day. I put it back in the fridge  after 24 hrs and checked it the next day and it finished. 3 days later I racked it and set the temp in the fridge down to 38-45 degrees.

I hope it all comes out well
 
@texasdan
- Yes, I follow John Palmers advice: 24 - 48 hrs diacetyl rest
- I assume you are living in Texas with outside temperatures that could be unfriendly for pils/lager brewing. I live in Norway with outside temperatures that, in the period  November - March, makes it very easy to keep the fermentation temperature very low and constant in a dedicated part of my house ;) In addition I have an extra  fridge when needed.

@Ornatonic
- could you please keep us updated regarding the final results? At least I am very interested in your taste notes and experiences with these 2 lagers using different yeast types.

Regards,
Slurk

 
Just checked on the brew I started on 1/21 and it's cleared enough to rack. That's almost three weeks with Saflager S-23.
 
I just brewed my very first batch of beer Saturday night using a brewers best kit of German Octoberfest lager (don't laugh - I had to start somewhere!) I have a few questions that i hope someone can help me with. The guy at the brew shop told me that the JD Carlson cleaner was also a sanitizer, so i took his word for it and didn't purchase a bottle of starsan- after arranging for a friend to help me on Saturday (he drove approx. 65 miles to get to my house) i had to brew no matter what.  After researching the cleaner on line i realized it wasn't a sanitizer, so i called a friend who owns a bar and she gave me a no rinse sanitizer called Steramine that they use to clean bar glasses - is this OK to use or will it effect the outcome of the brewing??? 2) My O/G reading was 1.040 (or 1.042) @ approx. 65 degrees. It should have read 1.052 - 1.056 did i add too much water to get such a low reading? And finally 3) its Monday night and not a single bit of bubbling action - is this normal? I have it stored at 50 - 55 degrees. Since i don't have a lagering cooler i will have to brew this as an ale without doing the secondary fermenting (or should i rack it and ferment it for another 2 wks or so after its done with the primary fermenting?) ((if it ever starts to ferment)). Sorry for rambling but i will appreciate any help that you can give! Please be as specific and detailed as possible because this is all new to me.
 
Saint,
I'm not familiar with your sanitizer, but most sanitizers used on glassware that people will drink from are not so aggressive as to poison a five-gallon batch.

Your gravity came out low and is already in the fermenter, so for this batch all you can do is tell people you modified it to be a session beer. For future batches check the gravity going into the boil kettle; Brewers Best may have made a mistake in measuring your ingredients. I've also had ingredients scurry behind other objects on my brewing surface and hide there for days. Measuring your pre-boil gravity will tell you if you need to add water to bring your gravity down or boil longer to raise it. BeerSmith will allow you to recalculate on the fly. If your pre-boil gravity is low and you anticipate you will need to extend the boil, you'll be able to adjust your hop additions also. Check your gravity and volume a couple of times throughout the boil to help you with your course corrections.

The lack of fermentation may not be a lack of fermentation. The CO2 may be escaping around a lid that isn't fully sealed, you may not have enough water in your air lock to show bubbles, or there may be some other novel way CO2 is escaping. Check your specific gravity, it will tell you if the wort is fermenting. Just use good sanitizing procedures when you dip into the beer. If you're fermenting in a bottling bucket (with a spigot on the bottom) use the spigot to take your sample. If it really isn't fermenting you can either pitch more yeast (assuming you have it or can get it) or you can raise the temperature and hope the yeast you added initially will take off. The Brewers Best instructions I found on-line don't specify how much yeast is in the packet they supply, but I assume it's enough to ferment the batch without needing a growth phase. I say that because they don't mention aerating your wort. Yeast need lots of oxygen initially (and only initially) to support growth and reproduction. The only reason (I know of) not to aerate would be that you're pitching enough cells to ferment the beer without needing to reproduce. Please note: there is a long and growing list of things I don't know.

I don't think you need to rack to a secondary even if you raise the temperature to ferment it as an ale. I routinely let my ales and lagers sit in the primary for a month. Let it sit on the settled yeast for a month to finish its magic. The beer will be happier. The question of when or if to transfer to a secondary is debated, but it appears an increasing number of experienced brewers are moving toward not using a secondary. Transfer from the primary directly to your carboy or another clean, sanitized bucket and use it as your bottling bucket.

Most important suggestion: If you haven't already, read John Palmer's How to Brew. It's available on-line at http://www.howtobrew.com/. Please note that the on-line version is not the most current, and John's recommendations have evolved in some areas.

Second-most important suggestion: use brewing software to calculate and plan your brewing, even with a kit. I like Beersmith, but there are spreadsheets available that will work if you don't mind the work.

It's amazing how good some of my beers taste (to me) in spite of the bizarre difficulties and inexplicable mistakes I encounter. Relax, don't worry, have a home brew (or if you don't have any home brew yet, have a good craft brew).
 
durrettd said:
It's amazing how good some of my beers taste (to me) in spite of the bizarre difficulties and inexplicable mistakes I encounter. Relax, don't worry, have a home brew (or if you don't have any home brew yet, have a good craft brew).

Couldn't agree more!!
Slurk
 
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