Converting a recipe

Hi sorry me again,
I am also playing with converting all-grain recipes to extract versions.  Now I know in your FAQ that 90% of these will work and others just don't.  So far I am 4 for 4 that will NOT convert.  Here is an example....

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Copy of Celis White (1)
Brewer: Bush
Asst Brewer:
Style: Witbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal      
Boil Size: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.064 SG
Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 18.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
6.00 lb       Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)            Grain        51.1 %        
4.75 lb       Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM)                 Grain        40.4 %        
0.50 lb       Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)              Grain        4.3 %        
0.50 lb       Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)                   Grain        4.3 %        
0.50 oz       Cascade [5.50%]  (60 min)                 Hops         9.2 IBU      
0.25 oz       Williamette [5.50%]  (60 min)             Hops         4.6 IBU      
0.25 oz       Cascade [5.50%]  (15 min)                 Hops         2.3 IBU      
0.25 oz       Williamette [5.50%]  (15 min)             Hops         2.3 IBU      
0.25 oz       Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min)             Misc                      
0.75 oz       Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min)        Misc                      
1 Pkgs        Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400)      Yeast-Wheat                


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 11.75 lb
----------------------------
Name               Description                         Step Temp     Step Time    
Mash In            Add 14.69 qt of water at 164.4 F    150.0 F       60 min    





Now when I do the conversion......



Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
64.81 lb      Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)              Grain        5.1 %        
0.50 oz       Cascade [5.50%]  (60 min)                 Hops         9.2 IBU      
0.25 oz       Williamette [5.50%]  (60 min)             Hops         4.6 IBU      
0.25 oz       Cascade [5.50%]  (15 min)                 Hops         2.3 IBU      
0.25 oz       Williamette [5.50%]  (15 min)             Hops         2.3 IBU      
0.25 oz       Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min)             Misc                      
0.75 oz       Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min)        Misc                      
1 Pkgs        Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400)      Yeast-Wheat




Not sure what is going wrong,....thanks for any help you can give.

This is a problem I need to correct.  When you convert very light colored beers there is a problem.

The basic problem is that base extracts are darker (in many cases) than the original beer.  So what happens is the coloring system looks for a lighter grain in the recipe (in this case the cara-pils) and starts using that to drive the color down.  Unfortunately I did not include enough checks in the program, so it will continue until the grain bill is basically all carapils (low color) and no base extract!

One work around trick might be to include a small amount of dark grain in the original recipe and then  remove that from the final recipe.  This would give it some flexibility when converting.

Brad

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
6.00 lb       Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)            Grain        51.1 %        
4.75 lb       Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM)                 Grain        40.4 %        
0.50 lb       Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)              Grain        4.3 %        
0.50 lb       Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)                   Grain        4.3 %        
1 Pkgs        Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400)      Yeast-Wheat                

Click to expand...

This is a style that is hard to duplicate as an extract because of the light color.  I'll give you a couple of options and the trade offs.

First look at the recipe as is, and adjust the efficiency so that the OG is what you are shooting for.  (75% for most recipes).  Note the OG.  Remember this.  We are going to remove the base fermentables and add extract back in.

Delete all the pale malt and the  wheat malt.
Select the wheat DME or LME of your choice,  increase the amount until you hit your target OG.  Because you are using extract, the color will be a little darker than what you are shooting for.  This is fine, but if you want to lighten it up replace some of the wheat extract with Briess Pale Pilsen malt (currently about the lightest on the market)  It still will not hit your color target (wit's can be very, very light), but it will be closer.

Replace your carapils with a light crystal 10L just because I think a little grain really kicks up an extract brew.

Oh, and drop the wheat flake for an extract

Hope this helps a little.

Fred

To do this manually

This is a style that is hard to duplicate as an extract because of the light color.  I'll give you a couple of options and the trade offs.

First look at the recipe as is, and adjust the efficiency so that the OG is what you are shooting for.  (75% for most recipes).  Note the OG.  Remember this.  We are going to remove the base fermentables and add extract back in.

Delete all the pale malt and the  wheat malt.
Select the wheat DME or LME of your choice,  increase the amount until you hit your target OG.  Because you are using extract, the color will be a little darker than what you are shooting for.  This is fine, but if you want to lighten it up replace some of the wheat extract with Briess Pale Pilsen malt (currently about the lightest on the market)  It still will not hit your color target (wit's can be very, very light), but it will be closer.

Replace your carapils with a light crystal 10L just because I think a little grain really kicks up an extract brew.

Oh, and drop the wheat flake for an extract

Hope this helps a little.

Fred

To do this manually

Click to expand...

Actually that did help, just playing around with it and it makes more and more sense.  I also tried adding a darker malt.  So I put in 1 lb of black patent and magically it recreated the extract version a little more accurate then before!

Thanks for your help, I am sure more will come up later.  ;D