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Water Profile Tooln and pH

ShowMeBrewer

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My tap water tested out with a pH of 9.6.  If I used the suggested additions in the Water Profile Took, will I get to pH fo 5.2-5.5?  If not, will other additions to adjust pH throw off the suggested additions?
 
The short answer to your first question is: "no". 
The answer to your second question is: "you are asking the wrong question."

The real question to be asking is, "What additions do I want to make and why?"

Water additions serve two purposes, simultaneously. 
1.  Manipulate mash pH (Ca [ph-], Mg[ph-], HCO3[ph+], CO3[ph+])
2.  Manipulate beer flavor (Cl, SO4, Na, NaHCO3)

They can't be considered separately, because the salts that we have available for use, impact both (except for 2: chalk, and table Salt).  The salts we use to add the above ions are:

CaCl
CaSO4
MgSO4
NaCl
NaHCO3
CaCO3

As you can see only NaCl is solely in set #2 (flavor only), and CaCO3 is in set #1 (pH).  Every other Salt has a flavor ion, and a pH ion. 

CaCO3 is complicated because it has an ion that lowers pH and an ion the raises ph. I generally don't use it, except for a specific water that needs lots of carbonates (burton).

Many people think that you want to replicate the local water at the origin location of a beer style (burtonized water is a classic example).  The fact is that almost every brewery out there CHANGES their local water for brewing.  Many brewers have reverse-osmosis systems to remove minerals from the water.  So, matching your brewing water to the  municipal water in a particular location doesn't mean that you have the water that the brewery actually uses for brewing.  So...just don't try.

That said, what is the goal?  See above: Mash pH and flavor.

Mash pH:

The pH of your water is irrelevant to your brewing Mash pH.  Mash pH is governed by a complex set of chemical reactions involving Calcium, phosphates from the grain, magnesium, the total alkalinity of the mash water, and the degree of darker/roasted grains in the grist.  It is easy to construct examples with source waters at various pH's that all induce different mash pH that is upside down and backwards from the source water pH.  You don't ever need to worry about your source water pH ever again. 

What do you worry about?  Calcium, Magnesium, Carbonates, and grist color.  These all interact to control your mash pH.  As I said, its complex.  Get a spreadsheet.  EZ Water 3.0 is good---it can usually predict my mash pH within about 0.2 pH.  I've used it for a couple of years.  I've recently started using Kai's new tool at brewer's friend---it is much more complex, but also more accurate.  I've used it for the last 3 brews (kolsch with pure RO water, ordinary bitter with 50% tap water, and barleywine with 100% tap water), and it predicted my mash pH within 0.02 pH (10x more accurate). 

rules of thumb:

Ca - you want 50+ ppm in the finished wort.  I shoot for 100 ppm in the mash
Mg - not really required, but I generally shoot for 5 ppm
HC03 - I have 3 ranges for this, broken down by final beer SRM:
    SRM 0-2 (super pale beer like Kolsch, or pilsner): 0 ppm
    SRM 2 - 15 (golden to copper beer): 50 ppm
    SRM 15+ (dark copper to black): 100 ppm

My local water has 100ppm HCO3.  So, I get water to match the above by dilution with distilled water:

0 ppm = 100% distilled
50 ppm = 50% tap / 50% distilled
100 ppm = 100% tap

Then I add back calcium and mg as needed to achieve the above minimums.  How you adjust Ca will be discussed in the flavor section because I have to choose between CaCl, and CaSO4...each of which has a flavor impact.

All of the spreadsheets will ask you for your grain bill.  they will then predict your mash pH using your water profile and the approximated effects of dark grains.  If your pH is high, you can add additional Calcium to drop the pH.  If it is low, you can remove Ca...or add NaHCO3 (see flavor impact of Na below), I always err on the high side, then I will refine with acids on brewday.

Brewday pH:
----------------

On brewday, I use a pH meter to measure my mash pH 5 minutes after mashing in.  Since I always target 5.6 or so, I pretty much know that my pH will not be too low.  It may be ok, or it may be high.  So, if it is high I willl add Lactic Acide (88%) to lower the pH (1 ml is usually enough).

Flavor:
---------------
There are three flavor impacting ions:

Na - acts much like table-salt.  It enhances the preception of flavors...particularly those flavors in malt.  So, it is generally a maltiness perception enhancer.

Cl - enhances maltiness. 

SO4 - enhances bitterness.  Makes hops tast more "sharp" and "crisp". 

There is a third impact (this is somewhat debated by some): the ratio of Chloride (Cl) to Sulfate (SO4).  Equal amounts is considered a "balanced" profile.  it doesn't emphasize either malt or hops.  Ratios above 1.0 have excess chloride and enhance the malt and de-emphasize the hops---making for a more malty beer.  Ratios below 1.0 enhance the hops and de-emphasize the malt---making for a more hoppy beer.  the useful range of this ratio is from 0.1 (super hoppy) to 10.0 (super malty).  However, most people without specific reason to go extreme will generally stay between 1/3 to 3---that's a safe play zone.  That said, I make my double IPAs using a Cl:SO4 ration of 1:7.

As long as the ppm for each of Cl and SO4 remain in "normal" ranges the above ratio rules work ok.  Normal is less than about 300 ppm for each.

So, there are two main sources of Cacium (excluding chalk because its complicated): CaCl, and CaSO4.  As I said in the pH section, the goal up there is simply to add calcium to bring the pH down into the 5.4-5.6 range (room temp measurement).  But, for flavor I may want different ratios of Cl and SO4 depending on the beer I'm making. 

I usually start with equal amounts of CaCl, and CaSO4 to get my calcium whereI want it (100ppm or so).  Then, I will begin exchanging one for the other to push the Cl:SO4 ratio in the direction I want it to go. 

The Mechanical process:
--------------------------

Here is my step by step process for a making a water profile for a beer, leaving the chemistry and flavor discussions.

1.  Open Mash pH tool.
2.  Input my local water profile.
3.  Input my recipe grain bill.
4.  Decide on an HCO3 value based on beer color (0, 50ppm, or 100ppm). 
5.  Dilute local water with distilled as required to achieve HCO3 value.
6.  Add MgSO4 to bring Mg up to about 5 ppm.
7.  Add NaCl as desired for maltiness (10-30 ppm).
8.  Add equal parts CaCl and CaSO4 to bring Ca above 100ppm and mash pH down to 5.5-5.6.
9.  Exchange CaCl for CaSO4 (or vice versa) to obtain desired ratio of Cl to SO4.

Note that never once am I consulting a local or historical water profile.  Its all based on chemistry and flavor targets.



 
From what I've gathered over the past few months is that 9.6 is pretty high and probably indicates a high amount of bicarbonate which would require acid.

You could put lactic acid in your brew water until you get to ph 5.5, the grain would probably buffer to 5.2 from there.



I wouldn't add any chemicals without knowing what is already there.




 
Thanks much for the input.  I have a better appreciation for the complexity of the topic now.  My trip up the learning curve continues.  My initial concern was for mash and fermentation efficiencies but I did not want to adversely impact taste.

My tap water tested out at:

pH               9.7
Sodium, Na               20
Potassium, K                 4
Calcium, Ca               28
Magnesium, Mg                 7
Total Hardness, CaCO3          99
Nitrate, NO3-N                 0.7
Sulfate, SO4-S               22
Chloride, Cl               14
Carbonate, CO3               19
Bicarbonate, HCO3               34
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3          59

The calculated best additions by the BeerSmith Water Profile Tool did not get me very close to the target profile, there was no indication of the resulting pH and there is no opportunity to account for the buffering effects of the grain bill so I am questioning the value of this tool.  I will play around with EZ Water program before my next brew and see if I can put it to use.  Thanks for your help.

 
I use a program called Bru'n Water. It lets you set your target minerals  and then based on your water it makes the suggested additions while taking your recipe's grain into account. 
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

I tried Ezwater on my last brew, but that didn't go well, though I am still not sure why it recommended 4x too much acid.
 
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