Author Topic: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches  (Read 9958 times)

Offline Stricklin

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Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« on: August 18, 2013, 09:51:04 PM »
Hello first Post here.
Been brewing for a few months.
Do partial boils (3 gallon for a 5 gallon batch) Extract. Fill up to 5 gallon after boil.
Not ready for AG, so not really looking for advice on that.
I am wondering if I could just buy 2 kits (usually buy morebeer.com kits)and boil 6 gallons (I have a 8 gallon pot) and make two 5 gallon batches. Splitting half the wort to two 5 gallon fermenters.
Will doubling up on the hops going to create a problem?
Will doubling flavor grains in the tea making be an issue?
Interested in trying different yeasts to see how styles change. But would like to cut down brew times. So doubling as mentioned above is a huge interest for me.
I am sure I will get larger pots, and go with whole grain at some time, but right now is not really an option. So any help in my current goal would be appreciated.

Thanks

Stricklin

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2013, 07:32:45 AM »
I assume you're currently doing a full boil in the 8-gallon pot.  That has several advantages you'd be giving up to make ten gallons with 2-3 gallons of top-up water.

The heavily concentrated wort may hurt hops utilization on hoppy brews:  higher OG adversely affects extraction of bittering. 

And it's generally a pain to pre-boil water to add later...much easier and more sanitary to boil it all and chill it all at once. 

And once you get a bigger pot, you'd be returning to full-boil batches, so all the effort to learn how to top-off correctly would be useless after that. 

Given all that, have you considered using 3-gallon carboys and just making smaller test batches from you current process? 

If testing is the priority, I'd go that route.  If volume is #1, then you'd want to review late-additions to the boil of DME, and do the math on top-off water. 

Offline Stricklin

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Re: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2013, 05:21:56 PM »
Actually doing 3 gallon boils and adding water for my 5 gallon batches. This is more do to the hot weather (and a bit of impatience) and the water being quite warm out of the tap for the wort chiller to effectively cool it.

I usually do about 1/4 to 1/3 LME at boil and hop addition (planning on trying some DME soon), and then add the rest of the LME at the end of the boil so as to get better hop utilization.

Just curious if I did do a 6 gallon boil, and added twice the hops, and 1/3 of a double order of DME/LME, if it would affect it oddly topping off to 10 gallons.
I have been using strictly pre-figured options for brewing so far, so haven't done any math or figures per say.

Just looking at options if I find a recipe I like, I could cut my brewing time down a bit doing one large boil instead of two. Wife about killed me buying the pot I have now, so going larger then the 8 gallon atm, is very much out of the question. And I still need to buy another fridge or freezer and a temp controller.

Strick

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2013, 11:42:52 AM »
If you're just doubling up the already concentrated boil you're now doing, I can't see it changing the results you're getting now.  But you'd have the larger wort to cool down, which you're avoiding now. 

Are you trying to reduce brew time on the single brew day, or trying to reduce the frequency of brewing?   Cuz doubling up will make the day longer, mostly due to chilling.

Offline RiverBrewer

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Re: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2013, 12:53:38 PM »
The wonderful thing about brewing is that it takes the about same amount of time to brew 5 gallons as it does 20 gallons. The only difference is you need more thermal energy to get the 20 gallons rolling. As a beginner you are noticing the length of time it takes to complete your brew day. If you are blessed to have a partner, they seem to be overly sharing about how brewing is interfering with sharing quality time with them. Boo-Hoo! It is part of home brewing that doesn't go away, so get comfortable with it.  Don't make a large investment in extract equipment, unless you are able to carry it over to AG. The advice to carry on with what you are doing is solid.
If you want to split batches, I would recommend the 3 gallon carboys. Work on yeast starters, an excellent way to improve the quality of any beer. Wives really don't like us messing up their kitchens, even if we clean up and mop the sticky floor. No sense of humor and they always find that one spot we missed. Start planning a transition to AG now, even if it takes you a year or so. I would rather brew outside in 35 degree weather, than  brew inside with flying broom stick woman. Trying to make efficient use of your time is about the only way to shorten you brew day. Start cleaning when time allows. Fresh wet crud cleans easier then dried crud. Set up a cheap submersible pump (Harbor Freight) in an ice & water cooler outside to flow into your wort chiller to cool faster.
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Offline Rep

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Re: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2013, 09:51:55 PM »
I agree with much that River stated.  Our significant others do have an impact on our hobby.  It is though, our hobby.

It seems to me that a move to all grain is an extension of your hobby.  Do not take that as an assumption on my part.  I only gather that based on what you have told us.

Any hobby has a period where we need to make a decision.   That is where I read you being.

OK, So build a brewery that you want.  And, one that will get you there.  It may take years.  Mine is.  And, that is part of the hobby. 

Develop the capacity of the equipment you have, but think of the future.  As you do so, consider the next stage you need to get to, and, make purchases so you are not purchasing equipment twice.


Offline philm63

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Re: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 11:24:02 AM »
Yeah, what they said.

The first big change I made was to go full-boil. My first couple of brews were extract kits and I did the partial-boil for the first one, and immediately went out and bought an 8-Gallon pot and immersion chiller and did the 2nd brew with a full-boil. Sure, I had to change the hop schedule around and I added some DME to put the gravity back where the recipe said it was supposed to be, but that's what got me thinking about recipe formulation. Next thing you know I was doing partial-mash!

You already HAVE the 8-Gallon pot so with the help of the ice-water-circulation-through-your-existing-immersion-chiller suggestion a couple of posts back (thanks, River, this works for me, too), chilling would no longer be a significant issue for you so full boils would be a natural progression. You could then split your batch into two smaller carboys (thanks, Malt) to try different yeasts or whatever you wish.

This 8-Gallon pot will naturally allow you to steep specialty grains for your extract kits as would just about any pot, but wait; there's more... you can add some of your own grains to that bag, maybe a touch of Munich or Biscuit (crushed) for added complexity, and steep for 30 minutes at 158 F - now you have a mini-mash!

Next thing you know you're buying 5-gallon nylon paint-strainer bags from the home improvement store and stuffing a few Lbs of US 2-Row, a pound of Crystal 20L, a half a pound of Aromatic Malt, steeping for 60 minutes at 154 F (mashing), pulling the bag and letting it drain into the kettle while pouring 170 F water over the bag a bunch of times to rinse the sugars out (sparging), topping the kettle up to "Pre-Boil Volume" and tossing in some DME or LME to hit your "Pre-Boil Gravity", crank up the heat... it all starts from here.
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Offline Mtnmangh

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Re: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2013, 09:08:41 PM »
I agree with a lot of the above.  As Maltlicker said, hop utilization goes down as you add sugar to your wort, so it could have an effect.  Check your software (if you have it) and you should be able to determine that.  If you are EXACTLY doubling your batches, however, it should be identical since you are boiling twice the volume.

Your steeping grain shouldn't be a problem, since you already have an 8 gallon pot.

The only potential problem I see is that same problem I have.  I boil 6.5 gallons (all grain) in an 8 gallon kettle.  You have to be SUPER careful right when you are coming to a boil and until your hot break settles or you will allow precious wort to stain your front porch (as I have done a time or two).  so all things considered, Have at it!  And Enjoy!
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Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2013, 09:10:25 AM »
Yep.  FermCap-S  and/or a spray bottle helps eliminate that rush of foam as it hits boiling. 

I use FermCap since I do FWH on every batch, so I don't want hops lifted up and stranded on the sides of the keggle. 

Offline Rep

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Re: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2013, 05:20:00 PM »
Yep.  FermCap-S  and/or a spray bottle helps eliminate that rush of foam as it hits boiling. 

I use FermCap since I do FWH on every batch, so I don't want hops lifted up and stranded on the sides of the keggle.

I started using the FermCap S recently.  The bottle tells me to add it to the fermenter.  It will also work in the boil kettle?  Do you use it in both?

Offline JDay

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Re: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2014, 12:16:52 AM »
Yep.  FermCap-S  and/or a spray bottle helps eliminate that rush of foam as it hits boiling. 

I use FermCap since I do FWH on every batch, so I don't want hops lifted up and stranded on the sides of the keggle.

I started using the FermCap S recently.  The bottle tells me to add it to the fermenter.  It will also work in the boil kettle?  Do you use it in both?

If you add it to the boil you do not need to add it to the fermenter. When you add it to the fermenter it will also raise the bitterness by about 10%, but this doesn't happen if you just add it to the boil.

Offline captjpr3

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Re: Moving from 5g to 10g Batches
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2014, 02:24:06 PM »
Good advice all. You can double your recipe as you suggest and get a decent brew, It probably won't taste exactly like what you've been making but it won't suck. You can toy with hop additions from there to get it back to what you want. Just don't get too caught up on making it taste exactly the same on the first try.