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How much water treatment?

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louiw

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Good evening to you all, I was hoping someone can confirm how much water treatment i should use for a pale ale. This will be my first all grain brew following on from kits so want to get the basics right from the beginning. I live in the south coast UK and have got the local water report for my area with the total alkalinity as CaC03 being 279.5 ppm.

I will be using Brupaks DLS and CRS water treatment and brewing a 5 UK Gallon Pale Ale. Beersmith tells me i will need 43l of water for the equipment profile i am using, so have worked out from two tables i was given i would need to use about 50mls CRS and 21g DLS.

I am not 100% sure that this is correct so if anyone can spare some time to tell me if it is or not i will be extremely grateful.

Thank you for your time

Louiw

 
The answer to your question about "how much water treatment" is: the less, the better.

Water chemistry gets deep and murky, quickly. (Ha! see what I did there.... ::) )

You cited a TOTAL Alkalinity number that is almost meaningless by itself. The number you're actually looking for is RESIDUAL Alkalinity (RA), which is what your mash will need to overcome in order to get to proper pH.  From your total number I can thumbnail a water profile that has a pretty high RA. It's a guess, so an actual number would just be confusing.

The other factor is malt, and your liquor to grist ratio in the mash.

A quick look at what the manufacturer says about the Brupak products and I come to the conclusion that you do not need any DLS. You only need enough CRS to move the water pH by -0.1 from its starting pH. The malt will do the rest. If you do use it, you're in the range of 1.75 ml/l or a bit under.

Consider using some acidulated malt, before turning to water treatments. Just a half kg of acidulated malt should place your mash into the optimal range of 5.2 to 5.4 pH.
 
Wow.  I'm just now starting to think about adjusting my water and I've got about all grain batches under my belt.  I looked at it early on, and decided to wait on it until I understood hops, grains, yeast, temperatures and my brewing equipment first.

I'm still going to wait until I've read "Water" about three or four times.

 
Scott Ickes said:
Wow.  I'm just now starting to think about adjusting my water and I've got about all grain batches under my belt.  I looked at it early on, and decided to wait on it until I understood hops, grains, yeast, temperatures and my brewing equipment first.

I'm still going to wait until I've read "Water" about three or four times.
Click to expand...
Yes, water in brewing can be complex, but there are ways to make it easier to manage without being a chemistry major.  It can be this simple:
1)  Identify the profile of your brewing water (in the US, go here and order the W-6 test kit or obtain a recent municipal water report)
2)  You need to know your grain bill (malts will have an affect on pH)
3)  Stock up on water amendments such as gypsum, calcium chloride, phosphoric or lactic acid, etc. (homebrew suppliers carry these)

Your primary objectives are to mash in the right pH range and figure out what amendments you want to make for flavor based on the beer style.  You will need a tool to achieve this.  As great as BeerSmith is, water is not a strength IMO.  I use Bru'n Water for this.  The developer is a water expert and homebrewer, who is also a consultant to commercial breweries.  His Water Knowledge page gives you the basics that you need to know in order to understand how to use water for brewing.  The spreadsheet may be intimidating at first, but it really is as simple as:
1)  Input your water profile
2)  Input your grain bill
3)  Select a target water profile
4)  Plug in values for water amendments as needed to adjust the pH and flavor profile (a little trial and error, but you will get the hang of it)

It can be made more complex than this, but it does not have to be.  I do not always check my mash pH, but when I do, I always find that it is within a few hundredths of a point from where it should be (i.e., if my target is 5.4, measured pH might be 4.36). 

Water does not need to be a barrier to jumping into all-grain. 
 
Bru'n Water
Click to expand...
I don't think I am going out on a limb by saying he has come up with the ultimate water spreadsheet.  And he released it to us, free.  He does have a donation page if anyone else is inclined. 
 
KernelCrush said:
Bru'n Water
Click to expand...
I don't think I am going out on a limb by saying he has come up with the ultimate water spreadsheet.  And he released it to us, free.  He does have a donation page if anyone else is inclined.
Click to expand...

It's worth noting that if you "donate," Martin will send you an upgraded version of the workbook.  Details available on the site.
 
@Scott - I'd recommend a water test, about $18 from wardlab.com, and that you consider just adding calcium, assuming your water is less than 100ppm. 

There are so many benefits to having sufficient calcium in the mash, boil, and beer that it's worth doing, after you have the basics covered.  Other than a $15 gram scale, the minerals are cheap and last forever.  There's not many single and simple actions that may improve clarity, hot/cold breaks, stability, yeast performance and flavor. 

That may improve every beer, and you tip-toe into the chloride:sulfate balance later. 
 
MaltLicker said:
@Scott - I'd recommend a water test, about $18 from wardlab.com, and that you consider just adding calcium, assuming your water is less than 100ppm. 

There are so many benefits to having sufficient calcium in the mash, boil, and beer that it's worth doing, after you have the basics covered.  Other than a $15 gram scale, the minerals are cheap and last forever.  There's not many single and simple actions that may improve clarity, hot/cold breaks, stability, yeast performance and flavor. 

That may improve every beer, and you tip-toe into the chloride:sulfate balance later.
Click to expand...

I'm taking it slowly.  I haven't had a water analysis performed, but I did look up my water profile online.  My water profile is also loaded in BeerSmith (it came with it as one of the water supplies that is provided!).  What I read online for Vancouver, WA vs. what is in BeerSmith was pretty close.

I make a lot of English Ale style beers, so I do mess with Burton Water Salts, calcium and gypsum a little bit.  My English Style Ales are scoring consistently between 35 and 45 every time I enter them in a competition, so I'm not going to make any changes to my water practices, until I've read "Water" a few times through.  Once I have a handle on what I would need to do, I'm going to stay with what works.

I'll probably begin messing with my water more seriously about May 2014.  I don't want to make any changes to my current practices until I understand what I'm doing.
 
MaltLicker said:
@Scott - I'd recommend a water test, about $18 from wardlab.com, and that you consider just adding calcium, assuming your water is less than 100ppm. 
Click to expand...

Can you clarify how one would add calcium without also adding other ions?
 
I would just like to say thank you for eveyones input on the subject. I'm sure i will be asking for help on many more occasions.
 
It's worth noting that if you "donate," Martin will send you an upgraded version of the workbook.  Details available on the site.
Click to expand...

My 20 bucks must have fell thru the cracks. Is the update via email or USPS
 
Email.

But, Martin might also be away for a bit. I suggest sending him an email at the address found in the spreadsheet.
 
Is it an upgraded version you get by email or an updated version?  I have downloaded updates directly from his free website.  My version in 1.16.  I donated about a month ago. I felt like a scoundrel using such a great spreadsheet for free. I checked my spam and while there are some exciting offers in that folder, there is nothing from him. 
 
I think I have version 2.9, I also have 2.5, and 1.13 still. I can't comment on the differences as the updates came so quickly that I never got to use to early versions much. Since the donation is through paypal you would have to make sure your email is current there. ALso it's been a few months without update so perhaps the hiatus comment is correct.
 
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