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size needed for MLT?

stmicbarr

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I'm new to all grain brewing and have done a couple batches using batch sparges, but I'm wanting to start doing fly sparges using a cooler for my HLT.  If I'm doing 5 gallon batches, would I ever need an HLT that holds more than 5 gallons?
 
most likely my current 5 gallon batch is needing 6.96 gallons for the sparge.  do not forget that you also have to the water for the boil off in there.
 
In order to be able to make a Barleywine, in round figures, the MLT should be 2x batch size, minimum.  3x would be ideal. 

You can "get away" with an MLT as small as 1x batch size as long as you keep your OG below 1.060 or so.

Why do you want to "fly sparge"?  I've known a lot of brewers who fly sparge, and say that "if they were starting over today, they would batch sparge."  The only reason they continue fly sparging is because they would have to reformulate all their recipes. 

If its for the "coolness" factor, or because that's how the "big boys" do it.  then more power to ya, have fun.  But, if its because you've been told that fly sparging is superior to batch sparging in some material way...it is not.  Fly sparging tends to be a little more finicky, and suceptible to variation from session to session.  Whereas, batch sparging is more reliably consistent. 
 
Thanks guys.  With all the reading I've done on the topic, most people say that fly sparging is more efficient at extracting the sugars, so I thought I'd give it a try.  And basically I'm trying to choose between a 5 gallon cooler and a 10 gallon cooler for the HLT.  I won't be putting the strike water in it, so I wondered about getting away with a 5 gallon one.  I'll go with the 10 gallon.
 
Fly sparging is about maximizing numbers. It maximizes the amount of grain that you can add to the mashtun because minimal space is required.  The grain weight rule of thumb is 75% to 80% of the quart capacity.

Contrary to Tom's comment, I don't think fly sparging is finicky. But, batch sparging has advantages of better water management and flexibility in temperature. Batch sparging can also be more forgiving of milling issues. Fly sparging works best with rectangular coolers, where the top surface area is more than on any side. For tall, cylindrical mashtuns, I think Batch sparging is better because the water can't channel down the side wall.

Fly sparging is about flow control. With a correctly designed mashtun, the outflow is set to fill the kettle in 60 to 90 minutes. Set it during recirculation and forget it. Then there is just ONE valve to adjust for the inflow of water. Not hard to manage at all.
 
brewfun said:
Contrary to Tom's comment, I don't think fly sparging is finicky. But, batch sparging has advantages of better water management and flexibility in temperature. Batch sparging can also be more forgiving of milling issues. Fly sparging works best with rectangular coolers, where the top surface area is more than on any side. For tall, cylindrical mashtuns, I think Batch sparging is better because the water can't channel down the side wall.

Without trying to argue, I'll clarify my meaning.  As you say, fly sparging has particular requirements on the MLT design.  Grain bed geometry and manifold/false bottom design/compatibility are key to a successful fly sparge.  The less well matched the manifold and MLT geometry the more unpredictable the extraction efficiency will be from batch to batch. 

brewfun said:
Fly sparging is about flow control. With a correctly designed mashtun, the outflow is set to fill the kettle in 60 to 90 minutes. Set it during recirculation and forget it. Then there is just ONE valve to adjust for the inflow of water. Not hard to manage at all.

This is a key point as well.  Homebrewer's with the typical 1/4 turn ball valve have very little feedback on the outflow rate.  Worse, the ball valve flow-rate vs. angular setting is rather "exponential".  A little one way or the other can cause the flow rate to be higher or lower than expected.  Until the brewer gets a good feel for this, flow rate will be all over the map....with the resultant variation in extract efficiency. 

I find its a little bit harder to measure progress, as well.  Since it is a "continuous" process, instead of piecewise linear...measuring extract efficiency mid-sparge requires some calculus to determine real vs. expected extract.  This is a minor problem, because there are spreadsheets and calculators out there that can do it for you.  But, in the event of a failure of the tool...most people are going to whip out solve the diffeq on the back of their brewsheet. 

That's what I mean by "finicky".  Its just a little more particular about manifold design, MLT geometry, grain crush, and outflow rate.  Once these get dialed in, I agree, its a "set-it-and-forget-it" process. 
 
tom_hampton said:
Homebrewer's with the typical 1/4 turn ball valve have very little feedback on the outflow rate.  Worse, the ball valve flow-rate vs. angular setting is rather "exponential".  A little one way or the other can cause the flow rate to be higher or lower than expected.  Until the brewer gets a good feel for this, flow rate will be all over the map....with the resultant variation in extract efficiency. 

I always used a couple of pitchers marked in pint increments for recirculation. Just set the flow rate a little fast to set the grain bed and then dial it back. If I recall correctly, 1 pint per minute filled 7.5 gallons in 60 minutes. My preferred speed was 3 minutes per quart.

Valve issues aren't limited to homebrewers. I have butterfly valves that can be varied with a bump one way or another within a single notch. It always seems like "perfect" is between two notches.  :eek: ;D  I just roll with it and make it work for me instead of against me.



 
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