Scott Ickes
Grandmaster Brewer
drb1215 said:
I second the nomination for Collaboration Porter.
All those in favor say "Aye".
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BeerSmith Forums user recipe collaboration idea.
- Thread starter Scott Ickes
- Start date
I second the nomination for Collaboration Porter.
All those in favor say "Aye".
Scott Ickes
Grandmaster Brewer
Here are some other links that you might find helpful in designing a beer recipe and specifically a Porter Recipe. Credit should go to Brad Smith for these articles. Thanks Brad!
http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/03/01/beer-styles-making-a-porter-recipe/
http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/02/27/making-full-body-beer-at-home/
http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/01/27/beer-recipe-design/
http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/03/01/beer-styles-making-a-porter-recipe/
http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/02/27/making-full-body-beer-at-home/
http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/01/27/beer-recipe-design/
cmbrougham
Grandmaster Brewer
Since "Robust Porter" as a style is open to a lot of interpretation, and is acknowledged as having fairly distinct localized characteristics, e.g. British vs. American, should the style picker set our course? Or do we just let what happens, happen?
I had been thinking about the name the other day before Collaboration Porter was suggested. Our biggest local brewery has a seasonal called Publican Porter--I liked the name of that, as it calls to mind a communal meeting place and the exchange of ideas. That turned into "Community Porter" in my mind, and because I'm a way-back computer geek, that was shortened to "Com Port." It's both a physical and virtual means for devices to communicate. Sound familiar?
I'm cool with whatever.
One other thought: if it's possible, it might be good to make a new "sticky" post at the beginning of this thread that contains the contents of the evolving recipe. This where it would be cool if BS had an online recipe designing component, similar to that of some of the other web-based design tools. I'm sure we'll all be designing along in the software, but it would be helpful to have a reference we can go back to to check that we're all on the same page.
I had been thinking about the name the other day before Collaboration Porter was suggested. Our biggest local brewery has a seasonal called Publican Porter--I liked the name of that, as it calls to mind a communal meeting place and the exchange of ideas. That turned into "Community Porter" in my mind, and because I'm a way-back computer geek, that was shortened to "Com Port." It's both a physical and virtual means for devices to communicate. Sound familiar?
I'm cool with whatever.One other thought: if it's possible, it might be good to make a new "sticky" post at the beginning of this thread that contains the contents of the evolving recipe. This where it would be cool if BS had an online recipe designing component, similar to that of some of the other web-based design tools. I'm sure we'll all be designing along in the software, but it would be helpful to have a reference we can go back to to check that we're all on the same page.
Scott Ickes
Grandmaster Brewer
I think we should let happen, what happens. The person that picks the ingredients that send it towards either a British or American style can tell us why they wanted to do that. That's why I attached the different blogs of Brads, etc. To give everyone the background of the style so that they could make that choice.
As for making it a Sticky, I haven't the first clue how to do that.
As for making it a Sticky, I haven't the first clue how to do that.
Scott Ickes
Grandmaster Brewer
I learned something new today. At least is was new for me. Baltic Porter is usually made with a lager yeast. Some of our brewers may not have the ability to proper hold lager temperatures. Since our recipe design is for an Ale Yeast, we should stay away from a Baltic Porter. Robust or Brown Porters are better candidates.
Roadrocket
Grandmaster Brewer
So. It's my choice for the Base Malt.
Porter is an English style so I choose 11 lbs (5 Kg) of Maris Otter as the base.
Maris Otter is an easy to handle and very "forgiving" malt. It's also very consistent in quality being a single variety. More importantly, the unique flavour is superior to modern malts which are mostly grown for high yield and ease of production for the grower. This is going to be a great beer so we only want to use the best ingredients.
I also think an English ingredient will add to the collaborative spirit of this enterprise. If others choose American ingredients it will be perfect and add to that spirit (but I hope I'll be able to get them).
I did consider choosing Mild Ale Malt which I find good for making a dark beer like Porter. It's kilned darker than pale malt and produces a slightly sweeter wort. It's used mainly for Brown and Mild Ales. I think it's probably hard to get hold of outside the UK so I chose something easier.
I openly admit to being biased in my choice. I don't live far from Warminster Maltings where they've been floor malting barley, by hand, for hundreds of years. Their Maris Otter is grown on selected farms in the chalk hills of Wiltshire and produces a fine skinned crispy sweet malt. I think it's wonderful to be able to buy fresh ingredients, locally grown in God's good soil which are hand crafted, with genuine pride, by people who care. It makes a world of difference to the final beer.
I believe MO is easy enough for everybody to get hold of. I guess you'll tell me if it's not.
For a 5 Gallon batch (19L) 11 lbs should give about 5.5% abv more or less depending on your efficiency and sparge method. I think this amount should keep the ABV in style when the other grains are added.
I've chosen a batch size of 20L in Beersmith with a total efficiency of 70%. This gives me an initial ABV 0f 5.5% using Crisp Maris Otter. If we all use those same figures then we will all get the same base recipe which we can later adjust to suit our own equipment. We can all then make the same beer, or near enough.
Porter is an English style so I choose 11 lbs (5 Kg) of Maris Otter as the base.
Maris Otter is an easy to handle and very "forgiving" malt. It's also very consistent in quality being a single variety. More importantly, the unique flavour is superior to modern malts which are mostly grown for high yield and ease of production for the grower. This is going to be a great beer so we only want to use the best ingredients.
I also think an English ingredient will add to the collaborative spirit of this enterprise. If others choose American ingredients it will be perfect and add to that spirit (but I hope I'll be able to get them).
I did consider choosing Mild Ale Malt which I find good for making a dark beer like Porter. It's kilned darker than pale malt and produces a slightly sweeter wort. It's used mainly for Brown and Mild Ales. I think it's probably hard to get hold of outside the UK so I chose something easier.
I openly admit to being biased in my choice. I don't live far from Warminster Maltings where they've been floor malting barley, by hand, for hundreds of years. Their Maris Otter is grown on selected farms in the chalk hills of Wiltshire and produces a fine skinned crispy sweet malt. I think it's wonderful to be able to buy fresh ingredients, locally grown in God's good soil which are hand crafted, with genuine pride, by people who care. It makes a world of difference to the final beer.
I believe MO is easy enough for everybody to get hold of. I guess you'll tell me if it's not.
For a 5 Gallon batch (19L) 11 lbs should give about 5.5% abv more or less depending on your efficiency and sparge method. I think this amount should keep the ABV in style when the other grains are added.
I've chosen a batch size of 20L in Beersmith with a total efficiency of 70%. This gives me an initial ABV 0f 5.5% using Crisp Maris Otter. If we all use those same figures then we will all get the same base recipe which we can later adjust to suit our own equipment. We can all then make the same beer, or near enough.
Scott Ickes
Grandmaster Brewer
Comments? Suggestions?
Scott Ickes
Grandmaster Brewer
Brewmex41 said:
We can meet at Baders and split a bag of Maris Otter. We'll each get 27.5 pounds for $30. Does this sound good to you?
We can even brew it together, side by side. My system is portable. If your system is portable, you can come over here, as well. I have a two car garage dedicated to brewing. I even have a utility sink and outside water close by for your chiller.
We can share a homebrew or 5, talk beer and brew collaboration porter.
Also, I'm brewing Saturday at 9 a.m. Matt and Ryan from the club are coming over to brew with me and bringing their systems. I'm brewing 10 gallons. You're welcome to join us. My address is 16007 NE 101st Way, Vancouver, WA.
cmbrougham
Grandmaster Brewer
Maris Otter is my favorite base malt--obviously, you were picking up on the MO vibes I was sending out It just so happens that I split a fresh bag with two other brewers this week. Great choice.
I would have loved to have tried the mild ale malt; I can actually get that at my local HB supply. Many of the bigger/better supply shops in the US have it now, as well, so it would be a possibility for pretty much anyone to get it here. That said, MO is fantastic and gets my wholehearted vote.
Rather than ABV (at least at this stage) we should be focusing on OG. For example, I brew 5 gallon (roughly 19L) batches, and my system is capable of hitting 80-84%. Going by your volumes and efficiency, that equates to an estimated OG of 1.055, by the contribution of the base malt alone. Is that what you're seeing? Ultimately, we'll have to design the recipe based on ingredient percentages, I think--I'm not sure I could get 70% if I tried!
Hopefully knowing estimated OG will help each participant make their suggestion for each additional ingredient with a little more knowledge of the beer as it forms.
(Now I'm just hoping someone says "brown malt!")
It just so happens that I split a fresh bag with two other brewers this week. Great choice.I would have loved to have tried the mild ale malt; I can actually get that at my local HB supply. Many of the bigger/better supply shops in the US have it now, as well, so it would be a possibility for pretty much anyone to get it here. That said, MO is fantastic and gets my wholehearted vote.
Rather than ABV (at least at this stage) we should be focusing on OG. For example, I brew 5 gallon (roughly 19L) batches, and my system is capable of hitting 80-84%. Going by your volumes and efficiency, that equates to an estimated OG of 1.055, by the contribution of the base malt alone. Is that what you're seeing? Ultimately, we'll have to design the recipe based on ingredient percentages, I think--I'm not sure I could get 70% if I tried!
Hopefully knowing estimated OG will help each participant make their suggestion for each additional ingredient with a little more knowledge of the beer as it forms.
(Now I'm just hoping someone says "brown malt!")
Scott Ickes
Grandmaster Brewer
cmbrougham said:Maris Otter is my favorite base malt--obviously, you were picking up on the MO vibes I was sending out
I would have loved to have tried the mild ale malt; I can actually get that at my local HB supply. Many of the bigger/better supply shops in the US have it now, as well, so it would be a possibility for pretty much anyone to get it here. That said, MO is fantastic and gets my wholehearted vote.
Rather than ABV (at least at this stage) we should be focusing on OG. For example, I brew 5 gallon (roughly 19L) batches, and my system is capable of hitting 80-84%. Going by your volumes and efficiency, that equates to an estimated OG of 1.055, by the contribution of the base malt alone. Is that what you're seeing? Ultimately, we'll have to design the recipe based on ingredient percentages, I think--I'm not sure I could get 70% if I tried!
Hopefully knowing estimated OG will help each participant make their suggestion for each additional ingredient with a little more knowledge of the beer as it forms.
(Now I'm just hoping someone says "brown malt!")
I agree. I'm getting 1.055 with my equipment too. I think we should be shooting for the Maris Otter to bring the gravity up to about 1.050-1.052 max. I'm thinking closer to 10 lbs. or less.
Anybody else have an opinion.
cmbrougham
Grandmaster Brewer
To get 1.055 with my system at 80%, that's 9# of MO (and lately I've been dialing it in a bit more and am getting closer to 82-83%). That's a decent sized grain bill to start, and if we're going to stay "to style," that leaves 0.010 SG until we breach the max at 1.065. We might potentially hit that with the addition of three specialty malts yet--especially with something like a porter that will need respectable amounts of any given malt to make its presence known.
Maybe the most logical thing is just to make a first pass where the grain bill is assembled, making best guesses at required amounts, and then have a round of tweaking where the amounts are adjusted slightly to achieve the theoretical desired effect. Thoughts on that?
Maybe the most logical thing is just to make a first pass where the grain bill is assembled, making best guesses at required amounts, and then have a round of tweaking where the amounts are adjusted slightly to achieve the theoretical desired effect. Thoughts on that?
Scott Ickes
Grandmaster Brewer
cmbrougham said:
I like this idea. I suggest we back it down to at least 10 lbs. for now. Once we get all of the specialty grains chosen, we'll look at the percentages, SRM, gravity, etc. and see where we're at. I think that once we get all of the specialty grains chosen, and know where the percentages are, it will be easier to dial it in. For example, if the base malt is too high of a percentage, we'll have a tough time hitting our SRM range.
MO sounds good to me. used a 50# sack of that about 20 batches ago and back then, I was using Nottingham yeast, thought my fermenter was go to need a blow off tube. If I remember right I had to change air locks every 6 hours for a day and 1/2.
looking back I should have fermented at a little lower of a temp.
As far as the amount, I agree with scott we can always adjust it latter.
looking back I should have fermented at a little lower of a temp.
As far as the amount, I agree with scott we can always adjust it latter.
cmbrougham
Grandmaster Brewer
Cool. Let's call it 10# for now. Practically speaking, designing the recipe in this fashion--starting where you think you need to be, adding additional layers, adjusting their amounts--is what you do when you're designing a recipe on your own (or at least that's what I do). We're just replicating that on a multiuser scale.
Scott Ickes
Grandmaster Brewer
10 lbs of Maris Otter it is!
I guess I'm up then.
I've been mulling this one over.
Robust Porter style works well with some grainy, malty flavor and aroma with some sweetness. Ruby and garnet highlights in the color are sometimes present. A higher kilned malt that provides the grainy, malty flavor and aroma, with some added sweetness fits well with the style. Adding the beginnings of some of the Ruby and garnet highlights, will give some options to the other grains to be added after this, giving them some flexibility in their choices.
My suggestion is to add 1.5 lbs of Munich Malt to the mix, with an SRM of 9 as found in German Munich Malt. This will fit with the Robust Porter style of an English version, as that would be the most likely used Munich Malt back in the day. I don't think a U.S. Munich Malt is the best choice, although the U.S. 10L and 20L versions wouldn't be in appropriate.
I use a lot of Munich Malt and find that it adds a deeper malty flavor to many of my beers. I use it when I want to the maltiness and a little sweetness too. I also like how the orange-amber color that it imparts, intensifies the colors of other grains (such as crystal, Black Patent, Chocolate, and Roasted Barley).
As far as the percentage of Munich Malt in the total grain bill, I think 8.5% to 10%. I'm leaning towards the 8.5% in my mind.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
I guess I'm up then.
I've been mulling this one over.
Robust Porter style works well with some grainy, malty flavor and aroma with some sweetness. Ruby and garnet highlights in the color are sometimes present. A higher kilned malt that provides the grainy, malty flavor and aroma, with some added sweetness fits well with the style. Adding the beginnings of some of the Ruby and garnet highlights, will give some options to the other grains to be added after this, giving them some flexibility in their choices.
My suggestion is to add 1.5 lbs of Munich Malt to the mix, with an SRM of 9 as found in German Munich Malt. This will fit with the Robust Porter style of an English version, as that would be the most likely used Munich Malt back in the day. I don't think a U.S. Munich Malt is the best choice, although the U.S. 10L and 20L versions wouldn't be in appropriate.
I use a lot of Munich Malt and find that it adds a deeper malty flavor to many of my beers. I use it when I want to the maltiness and a little sweetness too. I also like how the orange-amber color that it imparts, intensifies the colors of other grains (such as crystal, Black Patent, Chocolate, and Roasted Barley).
As far as the percentage of Munich Malt in the total grain bill, I think 8.5% to 10%. I'm leaning towards the 8.5% in my mind.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Slightly off topic here, but i brewed a peanut butter porter this weekend.
I used 11lb 2 row, 3/4lb chocolate malt and 2 lb of Red X malt. Basicaly the same as Munich malt I think. It will be a while before its ready, but im hoping the red x brings adifferent flavor I wouldn't normally find in an american porter
I used 11lb 2 row, 3/4lb chocolate malt and 2 lb of Red X malt. Basicaly the same as Munich malt I think. It will be a while before its ready, but im hoping the red x brings adifferent flavor I wouldn't normally find in an american porter
Scott Ickes
Grandmaster Brewer
I was probably pretty quick on the draw with mine, but I couldn't imagine anyone protesting a classic base malt like Maris Otter. Since the actually quantity can be finalized later, it seemed appropriate to move it along.
For the Munich Malt, I'll give it a day or two, to make sure everyone has a chance to weigh in. The specialty grains is much more dependent on each persons particular taste, so I think giving it more time is the best way to go.
We'll probably give plenty of time on the hops too.
For the Munich Malt, I'll give it a day or two, to make sure everyone has a chance to weigh in. The specialty grains is much more dependent on each persons particular taste, so I think giving it more time is the best way to go.
We'll probably give plenty of time on the hops too.