• Welcome to the new forum! We upgraded our forum software with a host of new boards, capabilities and features. It is also more secure.
    Jump in and join the conversation! You can learn more about the upgrade and new features here.

Do you still use Secondary?

Is oxygen such a big problem? I use a secondary fermenter and find that it helps in several ways
I'm not saying a secondary is bad as long as you are very careful not to introduce oxygen.

However yes oxygen introduced after fermentation has started is bad for your beer. It affects the flavor, clarity and long term stability of the beer all in a negative direction. Ideally you want to minimize oxygen during transfers as much as possible.
 
Is oxygen such a big problem? I use a secondary fermenter and find that it helps in several ways
1 I get clearer beer
2 Little oxygen can restart stuck ferments.
3 The secondary fermenter can be sed as a priming bucket since little yeast is on the bottom. My fermenters have a handy connection for a bottling wand that makes bottling much easier, with less foaming and splashing.
I didn't say it was a BIG problem. If done correctly no problem at all. But more of an issue than autolysis.
 
I didn't say it was a BIG problem. If done correctly no problem at all. But more of an issue than autolysis.
Hey I'm not anti secondary at all. I personally just leave it in my fermenter for 3 weeks and forget about. That said if after that I think it has stalled I'd recommend transfer to jump start
 
I have always used a secondary and never had problems with anything oxidation or otherwise. At home, I do not have the ability to cold crash, so the secondary is purely to leave most of the sludge behind. Old habits die hard after 30 years of brewing and my beer brewed at home tastes identical to the same recipes I brew on a 7BBL scale with closed transfer systems at the brewpub. All that said, if I could cold crash, I would probably skip secondary.
 
another reason to do a secondary is if you want to pitch to the cake. If you move the beer during active fermentation ( which is the only time I transfer) you can drop a new beer on it and get zero lag time.
 
another reason to do a secondary is if you want to pitch to the cake. If you move the beer during active fermentation ( which is the only time I transfer) you can drop a new beer on it and get zero lag time.
I did this using Kveik Lutra not long ago and that second beer took of fermenting within an hour of pitching the wort on top of the yeast cake.
 
Been brewing 28 years. At first I always did a secondary because that is what the books taught. Then I learned it isn’t always necessary. If the fermentation is long, about a month or more, I’ll do a secondary. I do inject CO2 into the secondary before transfer (my system is all gravity, no pumps). Another time I use a secondary is after dry hopping. Once I transferred direct from primary to keg and the hop bits that got through were enough to clog the keg fittings. That leaves over 90% of my beers only getting the primary. It has all been successful for me so far.
 
Only time I rack to a secondary is if I plan to bulk-age the beer several months. Like an imperial stout, or wood-aged beer. I'll fill the secondary vessel with Starsan, push that out with CO2, then rack beer into it.

The belief that it's detrimental to keep a beer on the cake for a few months is a myth that just won't die.
 
Only time I rack to a secondary is if I plan to bulk-age the beer several months. Like an imperial stout, or wood-aged beer. I'll fill the secondary vessel with Starsan, push that out with CO2, then rack beer into it.

The belief that it's detrimental to keep a beer on the cake for a few months is a myth that just won't die.
My procedure, too. I've just bottled a triple that had been sitting in room temperature for almost half a year after I racked it, and it seems to have suffered no harm from that. On the contrary, if I'm not wrong.

Actually that was a beer that I thought I would have to dump. It was with Westmalle-yeast, which is not a diastaticus type, but it just went on fermenting for a long time, and ended up at 0.996. 11% ABV. But then I never got round to deciding what to do, and when I tasted it again not long ago, it had miraculously turned rather nice.

It's not carbonated yet, so it's a bit early to taste the result, but at least I'm certain it did not suffer from autolysis off flavors.
 
Last edited:
1) It exposes the beer to oxygen.
2) More yeast clean up more off flavors. IMO
3) I'm lazy. Maybe not lazy, but I like to make things easier on myself. Work smarter, not harder.
4) I started doing it after noticing multiple micro brewers skipping it and just going from Primary to Cold Crashing.
 
I ferment in a converted Sanke and push to secondary with co2. Siphon to corny for dispensing. I don't worry about o2 and enjoy clear beer. This whole hazy ipa fad I believe came about because the big boys stopped secondary fermentation. Cheers!
 
Yes, I use a secondary for ales generally, except cask ales, which usually get transferred directly from primary before fermentation finishes to condition naturally in cask and when I don't have anything as a secondary available. I have been experimenting with pressure fermentation lagers for about a year without using a secondary. I even left some half batches in primary (corny kegs) on the yeast and served from there, to test some claims. I'm about to change my procedure for lagers and start using a secondary, to see if it makes a difference. I suspect it's going to make a noticeable difference. It does with ales.

Using a secondary is considered good practice generally in the brewing world. Getting the beer off the yeast and giving it time to stabilise before packaging is a key step in the process for many professional brewers and some home brewers. The yeast don't actually "clean up" much post fermentation. They're going dormant with metabolism shutting down. As yeast flocculate the beer starts to clear and taste better. The more it clears the better it tastes. Because yeast taste weird having absorbed and concentrated components of the wort. This is one of the reasons why pros use bright tanks or cylindro-conicals. And why some home brewers use a secondary, the home brew equivalent.

Obviously, home brewers don't need to be as stringent as commercial brewers. It boils down to what we consider acceptable as individuals. Some of my observations. Beers left in primary take longer to stabilise, because residual yeast metabolic activity (bubbles evolving in the yeast slurry erupting) launches trubby yeast trails up through the beer, partially undoing the clearing process. A secondary quickens the clearing process. Beers kegged directly from primary are less stable with the beer served from kegs sometimes changing between pours. I noticed this with all lagers kept on the yeast and served from primary as well as some that were probably transferred to a serving keg too soon.

It's really straightforward to carry out a basic closed transfer from any primary vessel (including a bucket) to a secondary purged of air (O2) using CO2 from fermentation in primary. A little imagination and basic organisation, that's all. Each to their own, though. It's the home brewer's choice, of course. What I find a bit funny, though, is, while a consensus has emerged among home brewers that a secondary isn't necessary and even "risky", conicals have become very popular with home brewers, because they allow home brewers to dump the yeast, turning a primary into a secondary. 🤫
 
No secondary here, but I age in kegs, don't really bottle much anymore at all.
 
These days we get better and healthier yeast, so the danger of getting off-flavors from autolysis is very small compared to the risk of oxidation or contamination or just the complication of racking to secondary.
 
Weird how some home brewers seem to lack the ability (confidence) to transfer several gallons of beer without oxidation ruining it. Maybe take up knitting or something, instead of brewing? 👍

An update on my lagers. At least a week in secondary before transferring to a serving keg works better. My lagers take 4-5 days to finish fermentation at 12°C. (I repitch sufficient healthy yeast cells.) Then raise to 18°C for 24h. Cold crash to 4°C for 48h before transferring to secondary. (Time to harvest free top-notch yeast for repitching. Priceless!) Leave in secondary @ 4°C for at least a week. Transfer to serving keg and force carbonate with beverage-grade CO2 for about 5 days. Served via a floating dip tube, a nice crisp lager within 3 weeks. Tastes noticeably cleaner and crisper than a pressure-fermented comparable (same recipe) lager. 🤷
 
Weird how some home brewers seem to lack the ability (confidence) to transfer several gallons of beer without oxidation ruining it. Maybe take up knitting or something, instead of brewing? 👍
Actually, the question is why do a transfer if you really see no significant benefit from it. I don't see anyone responding that seems to indicate they lack the ability or confidence. Having used a secondary in the past, I can vouch for the wasted effort with minimal, if any, helpful impact on the quality of my product.

If you see a benefit from performing a transfer to secondary, then good for you, I won't cast judgement on your process and practices. Please extend that courtesy to others.
 
Only the number-one excuse is "to avoid oxidation". I've done so many direct comparisons, I can say, with a higher level of confidence, a secondary is better practice. I suspect that's why it's standard practice among professional brewers. And why so many home brewers these days get excited about homebrew-scale conicals. It makes some outbursts a little bit funny.
 
Yes I am still in favour of secondary fermentation and I am not of the opinion that it increases oxidation that much either as long as you don't splash it into the vessel, it gets rid of most of the gunge from the primary, I cold crash then use gelatine finings then keg and naturally ferment it in the keg for carbonation and use extra C02 to make up for lost gas. Before kegging I use a squirt of C02 to remove oxygen. Beer is clear and tastes good too.
 
Back
Top