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Lost on batch sparging utility

Yeasty

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So, batch sparge 101.
I'm totally lost. Let me tell you what I do, and see if you can get the software to do it with me:
Mash in at ~1.25qt/G, rest for say 60m at some 152-ish depending on Rx. Then batch sparge using about 1/2 the volume as the first runnings, then do again. (4g mash = 3g first runnings, then 1.5g X 2 for sparging, eg.) Usually at about 168 deg.
How do I get the software to refer to that?
Also, I have no real idea about the mash tun fill volume. Can we not just use qts of liquer rather than percentage of the tun volume?
And how did you figure in how much would be left by the end of the first sparge? I seem to get out about all that I put in, since the grain has absorbed all it will take from the mash already. If I say 90%, why would it not be the same amount of water for the first and second sparge?
-I probably have more Q's, but I'll wait on them.
 

BeerSmith

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Thanks!
 Here's what the program does, though I'm certainly open to changing its behavior in the future.

 It uses the mash tun percentage to determine how full you want the mash tun during sparging.  The reason I use percentage is that the exact volume of the mash tun is not known in the generic mash profile.  Its only once you apply it to a recipe it becomes known.  I recommend using a high setting (80-95%) as this results in fewer steps.

 For the first batch sparge step, the amount of water already in the mash infusion is taken into account.  Therefore if you have a normal mash, your first batch sparge will be relatively small since the mash tun may be full already from the infusion.

 The next few steps are calculated by taking the amount of sparge water needed to achieve your boil volume.  This is split across as many batches as needed within constraints of the mash tun volume percentage and also the space taken by the grain and water absorbed by the grain.

 The procedure for batch sparging would be to do your infusion mash, then add the amount recommended for step one.  Drain that out, then add the amount recommended for step 2, drain it, and so on.

 What is a challenge here based on initial feedback is that many people use different "batch sparge" procedures, so what is needed in the future are additional options to account for these.

 I'm very open to adjusting the batch sparge feature to include new options/procedures, but I thought I would start with a description of what it does at the moment.

EDIT: We did revise the batch sparge options - download a new update here:
   http://www.beersmith.com/private/beersmith_021.exe

Cheers!
Brad
 
S

Shakey_Dog

When I go to the brew sheet and the batch sparge option is checked sometimes it does not show any batch sparge steps.

It will just say add water to acheive boil vol.

Could this be if there is alot of grain.  Say 15 lbs in a 5 gal rubbermaid system.

Don
 

BeerSmith

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Don,
 Thanks for catching this.

 There is a bug here (which obviously was not caught earlier).  If the mash tun is already full from the mash, there is a bug that wrongly things that the batch sparge is over.

 This appears to happen most often when you do a mash out (which often fills or even over-fills the mash tun).

 WORKAROUND: Currently the only way is to reduce the amount added in the sparge, perhaps by removing the mash out step.

 The fix is relatively simple, but I will probably wait until I get a little more feedback to determine if other changes need to be made to the batch sparge system.

 If you have suggestions on batch sparging - please put them here!  

 I will probably just make one revision to add a few new batch sparge options as well as fix this bug.

Cheers!
Brad
 
S

Shakey_Dog

I am happy to find that I am not crazy :p.

What if the first step is removed or you have an option where you do not need to mash out.  When I batch sparge I just drain then add my 1st sparge stir and let sit for about 10 min.

Thanks,

Don
 

BeerSmith

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Don,
 I actually had it set up that way originally, but someone pointed out that they did not do it that way.

 Obviously the first batch step needs an option to allow you to decide whether to drain first or go right into the first batch step.

Cheers!
Brad
 
S

Shakey_Dog

I agree.

This is a great program and I tell people about it all the time.  Keep up the great work.

Thanks,

Don
 

Yeasty

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Yes. I think that was the root of my confusion. I drain first, then go to sparging. I'll have to experiment to see which way is more efficient.
I haven't been able to get a batch sparge to show up on the brewsheet. How do I figure Lauter Tun Deadspace? I just use my mash tun to lauter, which is a 12g Igloo Cube. In the equipment setup, I have the lauter deadspace as 0.00, and I'm thinking that may be why it won't "let" me sparge.
 

BeerSmith

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Yeasty,
 Most likely its the bug that is preventing it from showing up on the brewsheet.

 You can minimize the effects of the bug by setting your mash tun size to 12 gal and using 100% of the mash tun.  Also if you skip the mash out step it will help make sure the tun is not full (minimizing the bug).

 After I get a little more feedback I will make some edits in a few days and probably post a fix/patch for you to try out.

 I will post a link to this thread once I finish it if you want to try it out.

Cheers!
Brad
 

Yeasty

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It's really fine. I can figure out how much water I need, etc., etc. But I look forward to the patch.
I also want to say, the program is very slick. Sure there's a bug or two, but I have no reservations telling all my brew buds about it.
I wish you success.
 

brownbeard

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I have the newest version runnning, with the update.  I set my mash tun% for the sparge @ 60%
this gave me a true batch sparge because it is not trying to fill the tun before draining.
 
S

Shakey_Dog

Brownbeard,

I just changed mine to 60 on a few of me recipes but it did not change anything and it is not showing on my brewsheet either. :-/

Don
 

brownbeard

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After you change this, you need to go back into the recipe, and reselect the mash profile.  the recipe is not automatiacally updated to show changes in the mash profile.
 
S

Shakey_Dog

I must be doning something wrong.

1. select batch sparge from mash profile.

2.  Set 60%mash tun tun volume from details

3.  Re select batch sparge profile.

Then the 60% went back to 90%.

I must be goffy :p

Don
 

BeerSmith

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I think I can help clarify this.

A full copy of the mash profile is stored in the recipe record.  This means that if you select a mash profile from the mash profile list, change it in the recipe and then reselect it it will copy the mash profile database value over your changes.

The reason for this is that many items (hops for example) are often edited for small changes (i.e. alpha values) that you don't always want propagated to the main database.  Therefore the recipe stores COPIES of all of the data and when you edit the recipe you are editing the copy and NOT the original ingredients, style or mash table.

I hope this helps a bit...

Cheers!
Brad
 

BeerSmith

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OK,
 Here's my "TO DO" list for a batch sparge fix. I can probably complete it in a day or two if we can agree on the options.

 - Fix the existing bug...which is relatively easy

 - Add NEW options that specify the batch sparge procedure.  Allow the following entries:

1) [Checkbox] Do/Don't Drain mash tun before starting sparge

 2) [Checkbox] Sparge in equal size batches

Using a combination of the two checkboxes, I think we can cover the 4 batch sparge variations I've heard about so far (draining or not draining mash tun and sparging/not sparging in equal batches.)

 I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this...

Cheers!
Brad
 
S

Shakey_Dog

Brad,

That should cover it.  I am a drain and sparge 2 time guy.  What you have suggested should work for everybody.

Best brewing software around.

Don
 
G

Gough

Yeah, sounds good Brad. I'm also a 'top up to roughly half final amount, drain tun and sparge with half again' brewer and it sounds like your new suggestions will offer that option. Again though, top software.

Shawn.
 

Yeasty

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Not sure if this would work, but what if instead there was simply an option in the mash profile builder, where you can add steps, just make one of the steps "batch sparge" along with the infusion, decoction and temperature steps.
At that point you could specify how much water, what temp, either by grain/water ratio or mash tun %, or whatever.
You could add as many sparge steps as you want4ed as well.
Maybe that's just a big wrench to throw in, but when I was trying to do it myself, that's where intuition led me.

Taylor
 

BeerSmith

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Good idea!

 I guess the only concern I would have is that the sparge water needed is actually variable since everything else in the recipe is fixed.

 However, it may be possible to somehow specify batch sparge steps in the mash profile in the future.  I need to think it though carefully.

Thanks!
Brad
 
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