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OG Target a Little Low - Dialing In System Efficiency With Beersmith 2 - Advice?

Jiffster

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I just brewed my 2nd all grain yesterday and things went much better than my 1st AG brew. However, my OG target came in 13 points low and my assumption is I am supposed to begin using these brew sessions to dial-in my system and tweak Beersmith to use my systems efficiencies to create more accurate recipes, correct?

I am not certain how to go about doing this. Can you arrived me with the link that shows me how to do this please?

I have been reading the articles for Beersmith and one stated "In BeerSmith you can click on the “brewhouse efficiency” button in any open recipe to perform more detailed mash or overall efficiency calculations."

I could not find this button.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Your efficiency is under your equipment profile.  If you haven't done it yet, create one copied from a stock profile, name it appropriately, and adjust the efficiency.
 
I did set up an equipment profile. I'm now attempting to use the data from recent brews to tweak the profile/efficiency.
 
OK, here is how I tuned my profiles and how I keep them updated:

You want to get the most accurate measurements you can on (1) volume of mash water [Vm], (2) weight of grains [Wg], (3) volume of wort collected pre-boil [Vp], (4) specific gravity of wort collected pre-boil [Sp], (5) volume of wort post-boil [Vb], (6) specific gravity of wort post boil [Sb], (7) volume into fermentor [Vf], (8) volume of trub/waste [Vt], (9) Boil time [T], (10) dead space volume in mash tun [Vd].

The more accurate you can take these readings the easier and faster it will be to tune your BeerSmith profiles.

The first thing you want to do is correct your volumes for room temperature.  Expansion of water is 4% at near boiling temperatures.  For simplicity, I use this figure (4%) for my hot measurements since I usually have them heating towards boil when I take them. 

[Vm] is measured at room temperature (in my case)
[Vp] is corrected for expansion: [Vp] / 1.04 = [Vpc]
[Vb] is corrected for expansion: [Vb] / 1.04 = [Vbc]
My volumes into the fermentor [Vf], volume of your mash tun dead space [Vd], and volume of waste and trub [Vt] are taken at room temperature

Your grain absorption is:  ( [Vm] - [Vpc] - [Vd]) / [Wg]
Your boil off rate is:  ( [Vpc] - [Vbc] ) / [T]

Checking your measurements:

I always run a gravity point balance around the boil to check the accuracy of my measurements.  This can be done by converting your specific gravity readings to 'points' using the following equations:

Points pre-boil: ( [Sp] - 1.000) * 1000 = [Pp]
points post boil:  ( [Sb] - 1.000) * 1000 = [Pb]

Your balance is gravity points pre-boil should equal gravity points post boil, thus:

( [Vpc] * [Pp] )  -  ( [Vbc] * [Pb] ) should equal zero, or close enough within your margin of error for measurements.

Now take your grain absorption figure and update it into BeerSmith by clicking 'options' >> 'advanced' and under 'Grain absorption' enter your recorded figure.

Take your equipment profile and update the figures for 'mash tun deadspace' to your measured [Vd]
Update your boil off rate by entering your calculated boil off per hour in the space marked 'boil off' and clicking 'use boil off as hourly rate'
Enter boil time as your standard boil for the majority of your recipes.  This only sets the initial boil time and can be adjusted within a recipe after updating the profile.

Update your mash tun volume and weight, your typical kettle top off (if any), top off water to fermentor (if any), and expected trub left in fermentor.

You can enter your 'loss to trub and chiller' using [Vt].

You can check your post boil volume measurement by comparing [Vbc] - [Vf] - [Vt] should be close to zero.

Now for the easy part, look at the last recipe you brewed and make sure the user entry numbers are all filled in on the mash tab and the post boil numbers on the fermentation tab.

BeerSmith will give you your 'measured mash efficiency' on the mash tab and your 'measured brewhouse efficiency' on the fermentation tab.  Enter the measured brewhouse efficiency from the recipe into your equipment profile.

Generally, if you have good enough measurements you can fine tune BeerSmith to be pretty accurate within 3 to 4 brews.  I keep a spreadsheet with the calculations described above for each brew and look at the averages in order to update my equipment profile on a regular basis, about every 3 to 4 months.  At 102 brews right now, most changes I make are very, very minor and most times I don't even bother because it is well within my ability to measure such changes.  The spreadsheet also let me look at any trends as I improved my process.

Last note:  I follow Mash Efficiency more closely than I do brewhouse efficiency.  My mash efficiency is extremely predictable, whereas my brewhouse efficiency changes depending upon the volume of hops added, for which I adjust the loss to trub and chiller for each recipe before I brew it.  I then adjust the brewhouse efficiency to obtain the mash efficiency I know that I will hit.


 
Wow! that explanation of how to set up your brew efficiency and mash efficiency is awesome.  Very easy to follow and detailed at the same time . I for one will be using what you have posted to help me set up my equipment profile for my first attempt at AG. Thanks for taking the time to go through this explanation
 
Oginme,
Thank you for the detailed instructions. I do have some questions:

1) In my brew yesterday I was targeting 7.5 gallons for boil volume. My actual wort collected from my MLT was 8 gallons. Would I use the 7.5 or 8 gal figure for wort collected pre-boil?

3) I'm no clear on the best way to determine volume of trub/waste since it is a mix of wort and solids?

4) Similar issue for dead space in MLT. I basically added water to the empty MLT, let it drain (without tilting it) and then collected and measured  the remaining water. Is that the proper way to measure MLT dead space?
 
Jiffster said:
Oginme,
Thank you for the detailed instructions. I do have some questions:

1) In my brew yesterday I was targeting 7.5 gallons for boil volume. My actual wort collected from my MLT was 8 gallons. Would I use the 7.5 or 8 gal figure for wort collected pre-boil?

3) I'm no clear on the best way to determine volume of trub/waste since it is a mix of wort and solids?

4) Similar issue for dead space in MLT. I basically added water to the empty MLT, let it drain (without tilting it) and then collected and measured  the remaining water. Is that the proper way to measure MLT dead space?

1) Use your ACTUAL measurements for the calculations.  You can easily be thrown by not getting the correct water volumes down for BeerSmith to calculate the results and end up constantly being under or over in OG.  This is why the measurement check of gravity points is important.

3) I ignore the solids and consider it all water.

4) Yes.
 
Oginme said:
Jiffster said:
Oginme,
Thank you for the detailed instructions. I do have some questions:

1) In my brew yesterday I was targeting 7.5 gallons for boil volume. My actual wort collected from my MLT was 8 gallons. Would I use the 7.5 or 8 gal figure for wort collected pre-boil?

3) I'm no clear on the best way to determine volume of trub/waste since it is a mix of wort and solids?

4) Similar issue for dead space in MLT. I basically added water to the empty MLT, let it drain (without tilting it) and then collected and measured  the remaining water. Is that the proper way to measure MLT dead space?

1) Use your ACTUAL measurements for the calculations.  You can easily be thrown by not getting the correct water volumes down for BeerSmith to calculate the results and end up constantly being under or over in OG.  This is why the measurement check of gravity points is important.

3) I ignore the solids and consider it all water.

4) Yes.

I just noticed my numbering system. LOL!!

For #3, just to make sure I'm clear, I would dump everything (liquid and solids)into measuring container and call it i.e. 1.25 gallons, just as if I were measuring water volume,correct?
 
That's how I handle it.  In reality, the volume solids is very small when compared to the amount of water.  I've done weight and volume solids on my trub remaining in the kettle and they typically end up as less than 5% of the total by weight, much less than that by volume.
 
Oginme said:
Jiffster said:
Oginme,
Thank you for the detailed instructions. I do have some questions:

1) In my brew yesterday I was targeting 7.5 gallons for boil volume. My actual wort collected from my MLT was 8 gallons. Would I use the 7.5 or 8 gal figure for wort collected pre-boil?

3) I'm no clear on the best way to determine volume of trub/waste since it is a mix of wort and solids?

4) Similar issue for dead space in MLT. I basically added water to the empty MLT, let it drain (without tilting it) and then collected and measured  the remaining water. Is that the proper way to measure MLT dead space?

1) Use your ACTUAL measurements for the calculations.  You can easily be thrown by not getting the correct water volumes down for BeerSmith to calculate the results and end up constantly being under or over in OG.  This is why the measurement check of gravity points is important.

3) I ignore the solids and consider it all water.

4) Yes.

Sorry to beat this to death again but I have one more question (for now).

Regarding item 1 again..... My target was 7.5, there was 8 gal in the MLT but I put .5 back so my 7.5 target would be correct.

You did state to use "actual" volume collected, but, would this be skewed by the fact that I put .5 back?

Should I have used all runnings available for my boil even though it would exceed my target boil volume or was I correct in putting it back?
 
If you actually collected 8 gallons and left 0.5 gallons behind, then you should use 7.5 gallons as your collected volume for the calculation, but add in the 0.5 gallons that you put back into the mash tun as 'dead space' for right now.  Use your fully collected volume of 8.0 gallons for calculating your grain absorption. 

After you get your boil off and have the rest of your profile in line, you can remove the extra 0.5 gallons from the deadspace figure.  Otherwise, it will always calculate your new batches as if you were leaving that 0.5 gallons in the mash tun.
 
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