Long Secondary Fermentation

Working on a Saison that had a 1/2 lb of honey added to the primary along with a Wyeast Belgian Saison #3724. Primary was done for four days @ 68F and then racked to the secondary which should have been 10 days @68F. The batch was dry hopped in the secondary. After inspecting the carboy on day ten, there was still pretty moderate fermentation going on and I was reluctant to start racking it to a bottling bucket thinking I might only be creating bottle bombs later on. Would it make sense to rack the wort a again to get it off of the lees and hope the fermentation will complete itself? I also included some finings in the recipe but with an active fermentation still going on, the wort is still pretty cloudy. The other option is should I just let this play out for several more days hoping that we get a completed fermentation. When the honey was added, I homogenized it by boiling the glass jar in a water bath for ten minutes before adding it to the wort.  The recipe was a BIAB one and all grain.

3724 has a history of being a slow fermenter and even getting stuck at about 1.030. 

You've pretty much set the flavor profile for the Saison.  I wouldn't rack it again though.  I'd pitch in some Wyeast 1056 or US-05 and let that yeast finish it out.  Those yeasts won't affect the flavor, as the 3724 has pretty much set your flavor profile already. 

This should allow it to finish out and clear for you.

I agree with Scott and I've had problems with that particular yeast in the past. My suggestion would be to confirm the FG to see how close it is to the predicted FG.  I ended up giving my brew a very slight stir to "wake" the yeast while it was still in the primary as mine did stall out at about 1.030.  If you find the FG is within a few points, I would go ahead give it just a few more days in the secondary - it certainly can't hurt.  Personally, I wouldn't bottle it until you are sure the FG is at or very near the estimated and that may take a few weeks (overall) to achieve.  Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

Thanks for that info on the Wyeast 3724. I thought something was up when I made my starter with some sterile wort. I didn't get as strong of a response as I normally do with most yeasts. I was pretty spot on with the OG when it went into the fermenter, only being off by 0.001. I doubt whether the FG is anywhere near where it should be right now. I'll give this a few more days in the carboy and then check it with a hydrometer. I may elect to take that suggestion of pitching a 1056 to speed things up a bit as long as it won't change the flavor profile. I might also add that I've added some Epsom salt and chalk when starting to the amount of water I needed to brew to create a more Belgian-like water profile compared to the one here. One last question, I am not showing a lot of head space in the carboy and was wondering if this might effect the speed of the wort fermenting out?

Thanks and Cheers! 

Don't decide to bottle based on being close to the predicted final gravity! Test the specific gravity, wait three days and test again. If the readings are the same, you can safely bottle. If the readings are not the same, wait another three days and measure again. Don't trust the yeast to follow the instructions!

If you leave the beer in primary until you have reached final gravity, your partially fermented beer will be in contact with more yeast cells and will ferment more fully in less time. When you transfer to secondary, most of the fermentable sugars will have been used up so the yeast cells in suspension will not be stirred up by their own CO2 production and will settle out sooner and more completely.

I had a bunch of bottle bombs from my first batch of homebrew. One of them nailed me in the back of the arm and it took two sutures to close the gusher. In other words: I'm was very careful about ensuring I reached final gravity before bottling. I switched to kegs within a year.

You may want to wait a week or two beyond reaching final gravity before bottling to allow the yeast to clean up some of the unpleasant by-products of the early fermentation.

The head space in your fermenter should have no effect on the yeasts ability to do its job.  You may, however, get a blow out, so be prepared.

Regarding the input offered by durrettd, every book, every article, every posting, every blog and every conversation I have ever read suggests using the FG as a base indicator to weather or not the beer has completed its fermentation - that's assuming all conditions of your process to that point were on-track and in-line with predicted conditions and outcomes. Once completed, one would than allow their brew to rest for couple days to allow the yeast to clean up the diacetyl.  Afterword, I typically go ahead and rack to the secondary, or I go ahead and bottle depending on the conditions of my brew at that time.

All that said, I also like the suggestion of introducing a second - neutral - yeast onto the brew to help the fermentation along.  While I have never done this at this stage of fermentation, it seems like a very logical solution.

Good luck and let us know how it turned out!!

After reading all of the suggestions, I think that I will give the secondary a few more days. It's still churning and expelling gas through the air lock. If things don't start to settle down by then I'll try going with the neutral yeast to speed things up a bit. Started in a 7 Gal. carboy and did not get any blow off at all before racking to a 5 gal one on day four. No bottling until I'm sure that things have completed. In all of the years I've done homebrewing, I've never had any bottle bombs and don't want to start now. However, I did have a couple of amazing blow offs in the primary years back but that's a conversation for another time!

Just a bit of an update on this. The carboy is still churning a bit with regular blips of the airlock. It doesn't appear to have slowed down appreciably over the last week or so. We are now about 9 days over the desired secondary fermentation in the recipe I put together. I guess I will now go to the neutral yeast suggested to see if that can speed things up a bit toward clearing and a complete fermentation. I haven't checked the gravity but it's obvious that we are not there yet just by the looks of the wort and the activity in the carboy. I have a decent amount of trub on the bottom so far in the secondary. I've never had a yeast take this long in a secondary in all of my years of homebrewing. I wonder if the honey addition is making this take longer to ferment out?

This is normal for the strain of yeast that you have chosen.  The complex flavors that this yeast strain creates, makes it worth the wait.  I recently brewed in a special competition at a local craft brewer, against 14 other homebrewers.  I made a Saison and would have preferred to use 3724, but instead, I used 3711 for the very reasons you are experiencing.  I only had 6 weeks from brewday to judging to get it ready and didn't think the 3724 could get it done quickly enough.

Thanks for that reassurance. Slow isn't the word for this yeast! it has to be the THE SLOWEST I've ever experienced and I have plenty of years of homebrewing under my belt. However, I can't say that I have ever used this particular yeast before, so there is a first time for everything. All I can say is, it better be worth the wait!

Just a short update on this batch. The airlock is still blipping at about once every 15 seconds or so which seems like a lot after almost 3 1/2 weeks in the secondary. The batch seems to be getting somewhat clearer but looks like it still has a long way to go. I'll have to remember the next time I use this yeast to start in February or March if I want a Saison to drink by summertime! The storage temp is at a constant 68F so nothing doing with any temperature fluctuations.

I would be fermenting it at about 75F!  It's a saison yeast.  It is actually better at higher temperatures.

Thought about upping the temp after having issues with the long fermentation time but sounds like it might be a little late for that. It's still in the secondary after about 3 1/2 weeks now and things are starting to slow down a bit. I guess a little more patience is required. Someone earlier suggested adding a neutral yeast to speed things up but I elected to see where this Saison yeast was going to ferment out. Next time I'll try the higher temp and see if the results are a bit faster. One question with regard to adding the neutral yeast. In the initial fermentation I added a 1 liter yeast culture of Saison to the wort. If I was doing a neutral addition to speed up the process, would this work out to a 1/2 liter of each? If not, what would be the suggested proportions of neutral to Saison? I don't want to create any "Old Faithfuls" in the carboy by adding too much yeast. Thus happened to me many, many years ago when I was first learning to homebrew and the mess it made was not fun.

After having this batch continue to ferment over the last month or so in the secondary I finally decided to rack it out of the carboy to prepare it for bottling since it was appearing to clear nicely and the air lock was only blipping once every few of minutes, if that. When checking the FG I was supposed to hit about 1.013 for a finished saison. I have come in at 1.007. Probably let this one go a bit too long after being concerned about the very slow secondary and the possibility of bottle bombs if bottling too early. Patience is always needed when home brewing but perhaps there just a bit too much here. It's most likely going to be a little thin. Any suggestions on boosting the FG a bit at this stage?