Est. Gravity vs Measured Gravity

So I did my first customized extract batch using BeerSmith 2.0. It was a Cream Ale. I logged in my equipment specifics, started with an existing recipe and began to swap in and out my ingredients and amounts, careful to stay within the ranges of the style. I was pretty jazzed when I nailed the OG and when I had an active fermentation, I figured all was good. Then I took the Final Gravity and I was way off. I was expecting an estimated final gravity number near what that the recipe stated. I was completely baffled and looked at the recipe again. That's when I noticed MEASURED final gravity, which was much closer to where I ended up.
Soooooo... what is the deal with ESTIMATED vs MEASURED and how can I get them in alignment? Obviously I want to see in those metrics sliders the numbers I'm going to end up with!

I'm obviously new to the software - I'm sure I'm missing something simple. I have attached my recipe from the software.

Help?

First thing that stands out to me is the recipe is written as an 'extract' recipe, but with the flaked corn and the 6-row, you really should have it entered as a 'partial mash'.  Given that, if you followed directions and steeped for only 20 minutes, you may not have fully converted all the starches.  Changing it to a partial mash recipe will affect your numbers.

I did some research and it seems that the difference between extract brewing with steeping of specialty grains is similar to "partial mash", but not exactly the same. This leads to some additinal questions it seems 

1) Still not sure what the difference between ESTIMATED and MEASURED gravity readings in the software are and how to align them.
2) Did I botch the setting (Extract vs Partial Mash)?
3) If I steeped 6-row did I screw up? I steeped both that and flaked corn. Perhaps I am confused as to what is considered a "specialty grain" and what is a grain that should only be used in all-grain brewing?

Some day this will seem basics to me

Here is the basic difference:  Steeping grains is used with fully converted grains such as crystal/caramel malts, certain biscuit malts, roasted malts (brown malt up to black malt) where the starches inside the kernel have been converted and just need to be dissolved and transported out of the pieces of ground malt.

Partial mashing involves grains (and adjuncts such as flaked corn) where the starches inside have not been pre-converted into sugars.  Here enzymes (such as from the 6-row) will break down the starches from the barley kernels and from the corn and reduce them to sugars which will feed the yeast.  Mashing is often performed from 145F up to 163F, where the majority of amylase enzyme activity is the greatest.  For this it takes some time to get full conversion of the starches. 

Now to get back to your initial question:  The 'estimated FG' is the calculated final gravity which is dependent upon the types of malts and fermentable sugars in the recipe, the mash temperature which dictates how much of those sugars will be available for the yeast, and the average 'apparent degree of fermentation' of the yeast.  The 'Actual FG; is the measurement you take at the end of fermentation which is a user input.  The difference between the two numbers can be caused by fermentation temperature, yeast cell count when pitched into the wort, amount of actual conversion of the starches into sugars, and other lesser variables from your process.

Add: For more detail on mashing and partial mashing you can go to www.howtobrew.com to see the first version of John Palmer's book on how to get started with brewing.  I highly recommend picking up the latest print version as it has updated information and more on new methods of brewing.

Greetings Bell, the "measured" is the amount you actually enter after you take your SG readings.  BS uses arbitrary numbers in many of the fields throughout the database.  I have gone through and zeroed them out in my base "template" recipe, then add my readings back into the software.

Im sorry, I can't answer your other questions as I am not very familiar with partial mash brewing.  I can tell you, however, many of the speciality grains are not able to properly convert the starches into sugars due to the process that particular malt was subject to during the malting/roasting phase. Therefore, a malt with a higher diastatic power is required to produce enough of the proper enzimes needed for starch conversion. This is why a "base malt" is so important because it will have enough diastatic power for its own conversion plus some for converting your speciality malts. I hope I explained this right.

OK, so I understand now that my MEASURED numbers are manually plugged in. One mystery solved.

It also seems like I should only steep "specialty grains", and 6-Row and Flaked Corn do not qualify.
Q1: Is there a way in the software to determine which are considered "specialty" and can be used for steeping?
Q2: There doesn't seem to be a place to input steeping time. Am I missing it?

I've been trying to modify my recipe (specifically the grain lines) to get it to produce the numbers that I actually ended up with from my batch and I can't seem to do it. Flipping the recipe to "partial mash" throws everything out of whack, as does removing the grain lines entirely. As I mentioned, my OG was spot on, so what in the world actually happened? Shouldn't I be able to recreate the result in the software?

BelligerentOwl said:

It also seems like I should only steep "specialty grains", and 6-Row and Flaked Corn do not qualify.
Q1: Is there a way in the software to determine which are considered "specialty" and can be used for steeping?

Click to expand...

Specialty grains are non enzymatic, plain and simple. Steeping and mashing are different processes. In mashing you're utilizing the enzymes of at least some pale malt to gain additional extract, color and flavor. This process will always result in a higher gravity than steeping. In steeping, you're getting mostly color and top note flavors and usually not much gravity.

Control of both is part of BeerSmith. For partial and full mashes,the Brewhouse Efficiency is what determines the gravity you expect. Partial mashing will often have a lower efficiency than full mash. Your real world results will help you determine that number. Steeping efficiency is a little harder to find. It's in Options > Advanced > Steeping Efficiency. The default is 15%, but you can raise or lower it to match your results.

Q2: There doesn't seem to be a place to input steeping time. Am I missing it?

Click to expand...

It's found on the timer tab. You'll see a field for the temperature and time of your steep. These are greyed out when partial of full mash is selected.

Alternatively, you can add an optional "steep time" field from the Select Fields menu. This button is found under the main design page window.

Shouldn't I be able to recreate the result in the software?

Click to expand...

With the proper inputs and a bit of patience, yes. The software is full of variables that let you match your methods. Your first post noted that the final gravity estimate was different. Again, this is a parameter you can control, if you know how your yeast will work. The yeast profiles are based on manufacturer reported results, of if those are unknown, some very standard assumptions. You can go to the Starter page, click on the yeast, then click edit details. Changing the Max Attenuation field will change the estimated final gravity.

Love this forum - you're all helpful and gracious with your time and knowledge.

I think here is what happened to my batch...

I steeped a grain (6-row) and adjunct (flaked corn) that weren't meant to be steeped. Probably didn't hurt anything, just not what they are intended for. My OG was dead on, so I was OK there. I strained the wort into the primary and got about a cup of trub, which doesn't seem crazy considering I used irish moss. Where it got weird was there was an unusual amount of trub in the primary when I racked to the secondary. Maybe just under two inches worth! It looked like lightly browned ground turkey. First time I've had nearly that much. Could this be the indicator of where I lost my ABV?!? Why so much?

I tasted at bottling and it tasted like beer, but a bit sweet. Of course I'll have a better sense after carbonation.

BelligerentOwl said:

Where it got weird was there was an unusual amount of trub in the primary when I racked to the secondary. Maybe just under two inches worth! It looked like lightly browned ground turkey. First time I've had nearly that much. Could this be the indicator of where I lost my ABV?!? Why so much?

Click to expand...

My bet is that you're just looking at spent yeast and perhaps some proteins that were initially suspended in your wort. If it's a nice compact layer of thick slurry, that's a sign of healthy yeast and great fermentation. If it's a but looser or disturbs easily, that's ok with some yeasts, but the one you have listed shouldn't flocculate like that.

The difference between your estimated and measured gravity isn't all that far off. In that recipe, each gravity point is worth 0.13% abv. An all malt beer averages at about 0.125% per gravity point, so the increase is due to your corn sugar. The estimated abv seems rounded upwards a little, too.

I tasted at bottling and it tasted like beer, but a bit sweet. Of course I'll have a better sense after carbonation.

Click to expand...

You likely had some starch conversion from the 6-row malt even in a steep (which is just a veeeeery thin mash) and, depending on temperature, increased protein and dextrines which show as higher FG plus the sweetness you're describing.