Author Topic: Add-In display issue/bug  (Read 4615 times)

Offline mr_beer

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Add-In display issue/bug
« on: August 31, 2018, 12:15:19 PM »
Under the add-on selection the 'installed add-ons' does not reflect the actual add-ons that are installed. 

Going to the specific area i.e. equipment or recipe then all of the add-ins are shown that were installed. 

An improvement would be able to install all of the add-ons instead of each one individually. 

Offline Oginme

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2018, 01:14:43 PM »
Under the add-on selection the 'installed add-ons' does not reflect the actual add-ons that are installed. 

Can you be more specific and give an example?  On my computer, BeerSmith is showing the add-ons that I have installed as being installed, and those that are not as not installed.

Going to the specific area i.e. equipment or recipe then all of the add-ins are shown that were installed. 

An improvement would be able to install all of the add-ons instead of each one individually.

I do not understand how installing all the add-ons that are available would be in improvement.  There are many that I do not want to have cluttering up my ingredients or equipment profiles.

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Offline mr_beer

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2018, 04:21:12 PM »





View 1 shows the Plugins for the equipment -- note that the "Installed Add-on" screen is a null set.
View 2 shows a list of the equipment and some of the available add-ons are installed. 

There should be consistency between these two views.


Regarding your view that you might not want all of the add-ons installed, that is certainly a personal preference.  Some of us want the entire package installed so we do not have to fiddle trying to find an add-on.  There are literally hundreds of add-ons and doing them one at a time is definitely a PITA.

Note also that the nomenclature is inconsistent.  It is called add-ons in the main view but there is a reference to Plug-ins.

Offline Oginme

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2018, 06:11:29 PM »
OK, a question:

Was the boilermaker add-on carried over from BS2?  I am just wondering if the add-on was updated with any new equipment options, thus the old add-on was not recognized.  It's kind of a shot in the dark, but it is the only thing that I can think of.  I tried adding that particular set of equipment profiles and it loaded fine and was removed fine after closing everything down and then starting it back up again. 

As to the add-ons being automatically installed, the answer is 'yes' it is a personal preference, as is your view of how this should work.  I will say that I have worked for years on removing equipment and mash profiles that I did not want or use and ingredients that are not available to me.  I would not want the program to just start loading back up with those add-ons which fit those parameters I used to remove the excess baggage (IMHO) which was already there. 
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Offline mr_beer

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 05:33:52 AM »
I do not know the answer to your question and associated speculation for a cause regarding the add-ons.  I am a casual user and do not have a detailed record of prior events.  By most standards this is an abnormal occurrence, i.e. a bug.  As such you should submit to the developers for reconciliation and to make the product better.

Regarding the add-ons versus plug-ins,  I pointed out a nomenclature issue and a suggestion for consistency and product improvement. 

Finally, the typical Windows paradigm of multiple item selection would work as an example.  Again, this is matter  pointed out to made the product better. and satisfy some user's expectations.   


Offline Oginme

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 05:49:25 AM »
I do not know the answer to your question and associated speculation for a cause regarding the add-ons.  I am a casual user and do not have a detailed record of prior events.  By most standards this is an abnormal occurrence, i.e. a bug.  As such you should submit to the developers for reconciliation and to make the product better.

So far, there is a report of n=1 occurrences which may be just as attributable to a user issue and not a software issue.  Should more people report this issue, then it would be looked at as a 'bug'.  At that point, those people affected can write to Brad to report it as an issue or bug.

Really, if you do not know that you had just added the plug in or if it was carried over from the previous version of BeerSmith then it makes it difficult for anyone to try to help you out.  As with any issue that comes up, the greater the information received surrounding the incident or occurrence, the easier it would be to track down the root cause.


Regarding the add-ons versus plug-ins,  I pointed out a nomenclature issue and a suggestion for consistency and product improvement. 

Finally, the typical Windows paradigm of multiple item selection would work as an example.  Again, this is matter  pointed out to made the product better. and satisfy some user's expectations.
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Offline mr_beer

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2018, 06:57:19 AM »
And my suggestion is that you report to the developers and they in turn can ask for more information that may help them. 

Expecting folks to take the time to report and document issues for a new software release and then wait until there are many incidents versus actually attempting to reproduce the issue does not seem respectful of the user -- after all he/she is the customer. 

But that is just my view bgased on over 40 years of software development.

Offline Oginme

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2018, 08:57:26 AM »
And my suggestion is that you report to the developers and they in turn can ask for more information that may help them. 

Expecting folks to take the time to report and document issues for a new software release and then wait until there are many incidents versus actually attempting to reproduce the issue does not seem respectful of the user -- after all he/she is the customer. 

But that is just my view bgased on over 40 years of software development.

So, let's review:

You don't know if you installed the add-on or not.
You don't know if it was imported from BS2 or not.
It does not register as being installed on your copy of BS3 when you look at the add-on list
I cannot repeat the issue on my version of BS3
You are insisting that this is a bug in the BS3 software
And you want another BS3 user to report it as a bug instead of doing so yourself.

I've done enough to try to give you some help in this area. There are many of us on this USER board who try to help others with getting the most out of the software and educate people on the process of brewing.  To have such demands as you have insisted on placing on us to help you when you refuse to help yourself is beyond arrogant.  If you need further help, maybe someone else will jump in and attempt to be of assistance.
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Offline mr_beer

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 11:22:37 AM »
We have a failure to communicate.  Lets try again...

I have installed the add-ons.  As an example I provided two screen shots.  The second screen shows the actual equipment profile with the add-ons included.  These add-ons are not shown on the right side of the add-on profiles as shown in my attached screen shot attachment #1. 

Obviously the add-ons got to the equipment profile somehow -- it was because I added them.  I have done everything I can to demonstrate an inconsistency.

I will give up -- apparently this issue is inconsequential and obviously I can work around it.

Offline brewfun

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2018, 09:08:54 PM »
We have a failure to communicate.  Lets try again...
Please do.
Quote
I have installed the add-ons. 
Yes, you have.
Quote
As an example I provided two screen shots. 
Yes, you have.
Quote
The second screen shows the actual equipment profile with the add-ons included. 
Yes, it does.
Quote
These add-ons are not shown on the right side of the add-on profiles as shown in my attached screen shot attachment #1. 
True.
Quote
Obviously the add-ons got to the equipment profile somehow -- it was because I added them. 
Yes. True.
Quote
I have done everything I can to demonstrate an inconsistency.
Not exactly. You've shown us your experience.  ;) And there is a solution.  8)

BeerSmith is actually a collection of flat files, which means that data is held in context to its use and often stored in multiple places. For instance, your ingredient files are independent of identically named ingredients in your recipes. Same with equipment, mash profiles and so forth.

Occasionally users create situations where BeerSmith overwrites files. Most often, it's trying to have two copies working on the same files or from the same folder. Other times, a random error can creep in and cause what you're seeing or something similar.

Make sure BeerSmith is closed and has fully written all files (takes about a minute on my computer) In your .../Documents/BeerSmith3 folder find a file named "plugin.bsmx" and delete it. This file got overwritten somehow, we're going to have BeerSmith write a new one.

Start BeerSmith. You should now see all of the plug ins that you have properly listed. When you close BeerSmith, it will write a new plugin.bsmx file. 

And all will be right with the world.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 09:10:49 PM by brewfun »
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Offline mr_beer

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2018, 06:57:36 AM »
Thank you for a factual reply and a work around for this issue.  As you suggested deleting the Plugins.bsmx file and reopening the program resulted in a correct view. 

Your statement Occasionally users create situations where BeerSmith overwrites files is interesting.  These issues typically would be isolated and documented  to insure that users do not damage their environment or waste time attempting to understand inconsistent software.  The discussion of flat files was illustrative and my speculation is that this issue is related to some file locking parameter not being checked or updated.  If it were my software I would put it on the non-critical issues list for eventual solution. 

Note also the nomenclature use of plugins versus add-ons.  A minor nit but it should be clarified/reconciled in a future release. 

Finally, the ability to have multiple selections in the add-ons area would be useful.  The Windows paradigm of multiple item selection is one approach, there may be others.  Again, a candidate for an enhancement in the future after review by the developers. 

Offline brewfun

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2018, 08:04:44 AM »
Your statement Occasionally users create situations where BeerSmith overwrites files is interesting.  These issues typically would be isolated and documented  to insure that users do not damage their environment or waste time attempting to understand inconsistent software. 

I feel oddly insulted by that. Thanks for letting me know I wasted my time. The reason I knew to tell you that is because it IS documented. The reason a solution was found is because I looked for it.

Quote
The discussion of flat files was illustrative and my speculation is that this issue is related to some file locking parameter not being checked or updated.  If it were my software I would put it on the non-critical issues list for eventual solution. 

Where did you speculate that? I have 0 years of software development experince, but I figured it out.

Quote
Note also the nomenclature use of plugins versus add-ons.  A minor nit but it should be clarified/reconciled in a future release. 

Finally, the ability to have multiple selections in the add-ons area would be useful.  The Windows paradigm of multiple item selection is one approach, there may be others.  Again, a candidate for an enhancement in the future after review by the developers.

Developer. One. Feel free to email him your thoughts and suggestions. Even better, offer to help. With a handle of Mr_Beer, coupled with your experience, I'd think you'd want to be the change instead of just an idea guy.

Also, consider that this is a forum of fellow users. People who purchase and use the software, just like you. Just because we can't help everything that comes up doesn't mean it's not being heard.

Beer is community. Offering a beer that came from your own hand is far more powerful than one you picked up at a store. In that way, offering a solution from your ideas an thoughts is far more powerful than finding nits for someone else to pick.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 09:02:40 AM by brewfun »
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Offline mr_beer

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2018, 07:32:18 AM »
This issue has not been solved and there is an obvious bug in the software. 

Brewfun provided a 'solution' of deleting the plugins.bsmx file and after that the plugins that I had installed appeared in the Installed list.

One day latter and the add-ons have disappeared from the Installed list even though they have been previously installed.

No doubt it is an ongoing issue.

Offline Kevin58

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2018, 11:05:56 AM »
Could it be that because the item you added on was an equipment profile that it does not need to be retained in the right pane of the add-on tool? It is just a single item and can be removed easily. Whereas I noticed in my own add-on tool I still have all of the malts that I have added to my ingredients listed in that right pane. However, those malts are usually grouped by manufacturer and include many different entries. For example, I added Baird malts just recently and there are a dozen or more different fermentables included in that one add-on. Leaving something like that in the right pane of the add-on tool makes it easier to remove them all at once. Anyway, that's my WAG.
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Offline mr_beer

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Re: Add-In display issue/bug
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2018, 04:13:22 PM »
I do not know how to respond to your question.

I used the software.
The add-ons appeared on day 1 based on the work around provided by Breswfun.
They have now disappeared on day 3 from the right pane of the add-on window.

Think of me as an average user.  I just 'installed' the add-ons.  The stuff is in the various sections of the equipment, ingredients, etc. profiles but do not show up on the right pane of the add-ons window.