Author Topic: Suggestion to the Water tab: Boiling water to remove temporary hardness  (Read 2466 times)

Offline Klenzestrasse Brewing

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Depending on the style, I often boil and decant my mash and sparge water to remove the temporary hardness.  It would be nice if BS3 had an option to calculate the effect of doing this and the use of slaked lime.  The online calculator I sometimes use has this feature but I would be much simpler to work entirely within BS3.

Offline BOB357

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Re: Suggestion to the Water tab: Boiling water to remove temporary hardness
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2018, 06:33:03 PM »
Do you have any research that shows real numbers? What exactly can you reliably predict from this procedure? Would it be consistent enough to be published for the universal use of subscribers with any expectation of realistic results?

Just asking.
Bob

Offline BrentJ

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Re: Suggestion to the Water tab: Boiling water to remove temporary hardness
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2018, 07:13:12 PM »
I believe both of these questions are addressed adequately in WATER A comprehensive guide for brewers.  There is a table presented that shows boiling time and resulting hardness reduction as well as equations for lime treatment.  See page 108 and 109 for the details so it does look like both of these concepts could be incorporated to adequately cover these hardness reduction methods. 

Offline BOB357

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Re: Suggestion to the Water tab: Boiling water to remove temporary hardness
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2018, 01:37:39 PM »
Table 10 on page 109 of Water shows the results of an experiment conducted in 1851, in London and used "artificially prepared" water. It appears that Palmer and/or Kaminski are using this information to illustrate the procedure and some degree of expectations. Had they wanted to give solid and usable numbers for todays brewers, I'm sure they would have included much newer and more comprehensive  data to reference.

I hardly see how the results of that experiment are applicable to todays home brewer. The variables listed on page 108 & 109, as well as the implication of others existing, pretty much limits reliable results to those who have more resources than most any home brewer has.

Does the procedure work? Obviously it does, but the material you cited answered neither of my questions.
Bob

Offline Oginme

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Re: Suggestion to the Water tab: Boiling water to remove temporary hardness
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2018, 02:07:36 PM »
OK, so just for snits and giggles, I hopped onto the site I use for searching scientific papers and plugged in several terms for temporary hardness reduction, boiling, slaked lime etc.

There are a ton of papers investigating the effect of hardness on brewing of sake and on the effect of hardness on tea.  Not so much on brewing of beer that I could find.  It is a more limited tool than I would like, but it usually comes up with something interesting.  I do know that there must be some papers and studies out there, just not able to find them in a quick search.
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Offline BOB357

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Re: Suggestion to the Water tab: Boiling water to remove temporary hardness
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2018, 06:12:38 PM »
My point exactly. You spend a great deal of time and effort to research topics and answer questions posed on this forum. How many others could we expect to do this? Few. If the answers aren't available with some simple research, close to none. This is something I consider seriously before questioning a procedure. I also consider the practicality when much simpler and less expensive procedures have been proven to work well.

I commend you for your efforts in helping others here. I'm old and often short tempered, so seldom spend time trying to assist those who seek an answer before doing some research on their own. I know, it is the 21st century and apathy is rampant, but I grew up learning in the school of hard knocks.
Bob

Offline Oginme

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Re: Suggestion to the Water tab: Boiling water to remove temporary hardness
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2018, 01:25:00 PM »
So here is a discussion on the AHA forum started by Martin Brungard about decarbonation of high carbonate containing water.  I knew it had to be somewhere, but he does not mention using slaked lime for reducing alkalinity.  In fact, he comments in his "Water Knowedge" publication that it will add to temporary hardness and if left out will react with CO2 in the air to become Calcium carbonate.


https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=5792.0
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