Author Topic: ABV is always higher than expected  (Read 1852 times)

Offline KB

  • BeerSmith Master Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 56
  • My homebrew rocks!
ABV is always higher than expected
« on: June 29, 2020, 02:58:37 PM »
I'm a bit confused and I'm hoping someone can help me understand things.

I'm using BeerSmith 3. I formulate a recipe. BS3 estimates OG at 1.051 and I actually get 1.053. BS3 estimates FG at 1.009 and I actually do achieve 1.009. However, BS3 estimates 4.8% ABV, but the "% Alcohol and Attenuation" tool calculates 5.8% ABV! Even if I enter OG of 1.051 (as per the recipe estimate) BS3 "% Alcohol and Attenuation" tool calculates 5.5% ABV which is different than the recipe 4.8% ABV.

5.8% ABV is much different than 4.8%

Why is the recipe ABV (which probably everyone uses to determine grain, etc for their brew day) different than the "% Alcohol and Attenuation" tool (We will only truly know the OG and actual FG once we are done fermenting)? In other words I'd imagine 100% of the BS3 brewers rely on the recipe ABV only to discover (at bottling or kegging) the recipe ABV is wrong.

Thanks.

Offline beerprof

  • BeerSmith Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 38
  • Chemistry not just my job, it's a way of life...
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2020, 03:14:18 PM »
hmmm... if I do my recipe I get 5.4 (recipe) vs 5.3 (% Alcohol calculator)... close enough that it's just rounding error... I am using BS 3.1.6

Offline KB

  • BeerSmith Master Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 56
  • My homebrew rocks!
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2020, 06:29:28 PM »
I just upgraded to the latest BS 3.1.05.

I'm not writing/complaining about OG 1.053 vs 1.051. I'm writing/complaining about 4.8% ABV being shown in the recipe vs 5.8% actual when my OG (1.053) is close to the BS estimated OG (1.051) and both my FG and BS estimated FG are 1.009.

I wanted a 4.8% ABV beer and not a 5.8% ABV beer.

Offline KB

  • BeerSmith Master Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 56
  • My homebrew rocks!
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2020, 05:26:02 AM »
Even though the Design tab is showing "Est ABV" is estimated ABW value mistakenly being shown? Perhaps, this is the problem?

Offline BOB357

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 681
  • Beer is my bucket list!
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2020, 06:22:35 AM »
The estimated are based primarily on inputs. Your equipment profile and ingredient entries in particular.
Bob

Offline Oginme

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3115
  • Goats, guitars, and a home brew; Life is good!
    • Longvu LaManchas
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2020, 06:53:38 AM »
I am not seeing any difference between the ABV on the design page and the separate alcohol and attenuation tool other than a tenth of a point which can be rounding error.  If you are seeing this in one of your recipes, export it as a .bsmx file and post it.  Maybe there is something that is different about the recipe or your profiles which is causing this miscalculation and by looking at the profiles at work in your recipe we can follow the issue to help identify where it is going wrong.
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline KB

  • BeerSmith Master Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 56
  • My homebrew rocks!
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2020, 08:36:01 AM »
I am extremely confused. I have not modified the recipe in any way. Only change was updating to BS 3.1.05 on June 30, 2020.

Now when I open the recipe, on July 1, 2020, the Est FG is 1.015. Before updating to 3.1.05 the Est FG was 1.009!

With OG 1.051 and FG 1.015 the Est ABV of 4.8% is correct.

I didn't have the wrong recipe open as I have a printed copy of the recipe that also has Est FG 1.009.

What is going on?

Offline Oginme

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3115
  • Goats, guitars, and a home brew; Life is good!
    • Longvu LaManchas
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2020, 08:57:31 AM »
I am extremely confused. I have not modified the recipe in any way. Only change was updating to BS 3.1.05 on June 30, 2020.

Now when I open the recipe, on July 1, 2020, the Est FG is 1.015. Before updating to 3.1.05 the Est FG was 1.009!

With OG 1.051 and FG 1.015 the Est ABV of 4.8% is correct.

I didn't have the wrong recipe open as I have a printed copy of the recipe that also has Est FG 1.009.

What is going on?

We are not mind readers and cannot see into your computer.  Refer to my message above on how you can help us to figure it out.

Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline KB

  • BeerSmith Master Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 56
  • My homebrew rocks!
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2020, 11:53:57 AM »
I have not modified the recipe in any way. Only change was updating to BS 3.1.05 on June 30, 2020.

Now when I open the recipe, on July 1, 2020, the Est FG is 1.015. Before updating to 3.1.05 the Est FG was 1.009!

With OG 1.051 and FG 1.015 the Est ABV of 4.8% is correct.

I didn't have the wrong recipe open as I have a printed copy of the recipe that also has Est FG 1.009.

What is going on?

Offline beerprof

  • BeerSmith Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 38
  • Chemistry not just my job, it's a way of life...
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2020, 01:33:09 PM »
KB, if you export the recipe as .bsmx as Oginme suggested and post it here, it would be easier for us to help you figure it out.

Offline Kevin58

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • God is great, beer is good and people are crazy
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2020, 02:17:28 PM »
Open Beersmith. Select the recipe in question. Don't open it, just click it once so that it is highlighted. Then in the top menu go to File and click Export Selected. Name the file and save it to your computer. Then in your next message here choose Attachments and other options under the text window. Go to Attach: and choose the file you saved on your computer. Click Post and then we will be able to open your recipe to see what the problem might be.

btw, if you want a great rye IPA recipe open the sample bsmx file I have included here ;)
If you?re stressing over homebrewing, you?re doing something wrong.
- Denny Conn

Offline KB

  • BeerSmith Master Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 56
  • My homebrew rocks!
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2020, 06:59:24 PM »
Kevin, thanks, but I understand/comprehend/know how to do...

Offline Kevin58

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • God is great, beer is good and people are crazy
Re: ABV is always higher than expected
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2020, 07:35:44 AM »
Sorry. It's just that after being asked to upload a bsmx you simply repeated the same thing you said previously leading me to assume you didn't understand the request. If anyone can help it is Oginme but nothing can move forward until he can see the file.
If you?re stressing over homebrewing, you?re doing something wrong.
- Denny Conn