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Beersmith 3 <> Beersmith 2

ckilner

Apprentice
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
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I'm planning to move from Beersmith 2 to Beersmith 3 so I thought I'd do a calculation check.
I have imported the recipes and settings from BS2 into BS3 and checked them manually to ensure they match.
I have created a basic recipe in each and compared the Est ABV and Est FG but have found them to be very different.
The Est OG in both is the same but BS3 seems to over estimate the FG.
I've completed hundreds of brews over the last few years with BS2 and the Estimated FG is pretty much spot on with the actual FG.
I've just completed my first brew with BS3 and the Actual FG is way off.

Beersmith 2




Beersmith 3




Any ideas anyone?
 
The images demonstrate a difference, but give absolutely no information which we can look at to see what the actual differences might be.  From the pictures, we can only speculate on what might be different between the two versions.

First thing I would check is to make sure the attenuation of the yeast is the same between the versions.  Changes may have been made to the stock profiles to update the ingredient information based upon supplier documents.

Next, I would go into the 'options' and compare the calculation for fermentability between the two versions.  Look at the slope for FG attenuation adjustment and the center point of the adjustment.  I did not see a change in my copy, but it may have been changed in your old copy to refine the attenuation to your process.

Third, make sure the mash profiles are the same.  They are labeled the same, but without seeing the actual profile to verify they are identical we can guess that there may be a difference.

Lastly, I would cycle back through the release notes for BS3 and see if there is any bullet point there which may resonate with you which could attribute to the change.

There may be other things which would stand out, but it would be impossible to point you in a direction without more information.  Probably the best way would be for you to export the recipes from each version as a .bsmx file and post them here for those users like myself who still have both versions to view them.

When I upgraded from BS2 to BS3 when it was first released I did no experience any real discrepancies between the versions with regard to the FG calculation. 
 
Thanks for the comments.
Attenuation is the same
Beersmith 2


Beersmith 3


Fermentability settings are the same:
Beersmith 2


Beersmith 3


Mash Profiles are the same
Beersmith 2


Beersmith 3


I've attached the BS2 and BS3 .bsmx files. Happy for anyone to spot what I've missed but I really can't see it.
Thanks

 

Attachments

  • BS2.bsmx
    15.4 KB · Views: 94
  • BS3.bsmx
    17.9 KB · Views: 86
OK, answer for you.

The previous version of BeerSmith (BS2) had a cap on the maximum and minimum rest temperatures which it used for calculating the fermentability of the wort.  This lower limit was 63C (146F) (if I recall correctly).  BS3 removed that lower limit (or lowered the cap) which means that the calculation for fermentability of the wort is now responding to your saccharification rest at 62C (143.6F).

This occurs because there really is no good model to predict fermentability of wort with multiple rests in the saccharification zone.  So the software defaults to using the lowest temperature to predict the fermentabilty.
 
Thanks. The mist is beginning to clear.

From experience, the numbers produced with BS2 which includes step 2 are correct and are proved in the actual brew.
With step 2 included in BS3 mash, the predicted FG in reality is wrong.

Mash step 2 must do something but BS3 is getting it wrong. As I move the temperature of step 2 up from 62 to 63, to 64 etc. the predicted gravity increases but only when I remove the step completely does it match actual reality. That still seems odd to me.
 
As I stated, there are no models for predicting fermentability of step mashes with several saccharification rests.  The only model the program knows is a linear effect of fermentability based upon the mash temperature.  It takes the FIRST step in the saccharification zone and uses that for the prediction, ignoring all others. 

In BS2, the program did not consider the 62C step to be in the limits of the saccharfication rests for purposes of doing this calculation and was only using the 68C rest for this calculation.  Unfortunately, there is no work around for this within BS3 to have it ignore the 62C rest step that I know of.  Maybe the active range could be put into the 'options' as user defined with the limits presently in the program as the default min/max for those who try to extend the saccarification rests beyond what is reasonable for actual brewing.  It might be worth the suggestion to Brad.

 
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