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Scotch Ale caramelization

MaltLicker

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A friend told me a trick for Scotch Ales, wondering if anyone's heard it or done it.  Take the very first runnings into a separate, smaller pot and boil them gently while the rest of sparge is happening.  Then add back to wort when ready to boil the entire thing.  Supposedly reduces the thickest, richest wort and creates that Scotch Ale mouth chewiness.  Thoughts?  Seems simple enough to do in the kitchen as long as you didn't boil it over while you were outside. 
 
This is one of my favorite styles. I have heard of people doing this. However, because of the malty nature of the style, I typically do extended boils to get more Carmel flavors in the wort. I just made a wee heavy two weeks ago and boiled for 3 hours. I also Decott for the mash out on this one and do a 20 min boil along with the normal MO. The Decott gives it a more authentic flavors. Both techniques combined gave me an extra 4 gallons for Sparging. When you have 26# of grain you need every drop of water you can get... I did not have a pic hosted anywhere so I posted it as an attachment.

Cheers
Preston
 

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MaltLicker said:
A friend told me a trick for Scotch Ales, wondering if anyone's heard it or done it.  Take the very first runnings into a separate, smaller pot and boil them gently while the rest of sparge is happening.  Then add back to wort when ready to boil the entire thing.  Supposedly reduces the thickest, richest wort and creates that Scotch Ale mouth chewiness.   Thoughts?  Seems simple enough to do in the kitchen as long as you didn't boil it over while you were outside. 

My brew partner just did this with his Wee Heavy but unfortunately it isn't out of fermentation yet.  Seems that he didn't expect the yeast to have such a hard time fermenting through the high gravity level he got by boiling down the wort (White Labs Edinburgh).  I thing he started around 1.085 and it is currently around 1.030 after a few weeks of fermentation.  He keeps transferring it to stir up the yeast and keep it active.  Hopefully it will be done soon and I can give you a report on the taste.
 
Berkyjay said:
He keeps transferring it to stir up the yeast and keep it active. 

Thanks.  Please let us know.  One of my favorite gadgets is the attached "lazy susan" spinner.  $5, low-profile, and carboys fit right on it.  After the violent "lava lamp" stage of primary fermentation, I spin the carboy to get the yeast back up into suspension.  It creates a nice gentle vortex without the risk of dropping the carboy, sloshing the airlock out, breaking your back, or an infection from repetitive transfers.  I just reach in and spin the carboy whenever I walk by the freezer.  Two seconds. 
 

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Hah, that's great stuff there.  I am sure my brew partner will love that idea.  Thanks!
 
MaltLicker said:
A friend told me a trick for Scotch Ales, wondering if anyone's heard it or done it.  Take the very first runnings into a separate, smaller pot and boil them gently while the rest of sparge is happening.  Then add back to wort when ready to boil the entire thing.  Supposedly reduces the thickest, richest wort and creates that Scotch Ale mouth chewiness.   Thoughts?  Seems simple enough to do in the kitchen as long as you didn't boil it over while you were outside. 
While this does work, I like to use a long boil instead.  That does a very nice job on my bigger beers.

Fred
 
MaltLicker said:
A friend told me a trick for Scotch Ales, wondering if anyone's heard it or done it.  Take the very first runnings into a separate, smaller pot and boil them gently while the rest of sparge is happening.  Then add back to wort when ready to boil the entire thing.  Supposedly reduces the thickest, richest wort and creates that Scotch Ale mouth chewiness.   Thoughts?  Seems simple enough to do in the kitchen as long as you didn't boil it over while you were outside. 
I have my second Wee Heavy in primary right now.  For the two that I have made so far I did the process mentioned above.  I was not so careful to record the original volume of the first runoff or the amount of time simmering on the stove, but I followed the guideline of reducing the runoff to half its original volume.  I went a "little" over that my first attempt and the final product had a slight undesirable burnt caramel flavor and a rather high FG of 1.030.  I reduced the heat and time on the stove for the second and we will see the results soon enough!

I have heard you should collect 1Gal of runoff for a final batch volume of 5Gal.

The other methods I utilized to get an overall maltier ale were a high sacc. temp (156-158F) and a slightly longer boil.  This combined methods created a rather complex ale.
 
Hey,

Im to start a Scotch Ale batch, I would like to avoid having to make a starter with a Wyeast Scotch Ale yeast, is there any good Dry Yeast which could be a substitute?

Thanks,
J
 
You can use 2 packs of Nottingham or US05, rehydrated.  If you cannot ferment on the cool side (low 60s) go with the US05

Fred
 
Go to Mrmalty.com and use the pitching calculator to help you select. You cant go wrong!

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

Cheers
Preston
 
I just did the Kilt lifter on this site and I have to agree with maltlicker that the decoct adds more flavor and a little more color (The color was great coming out of the mash tun). I did kind of go overboard with the recipe though so I really can't base too much of an opinion because my og was 1.140 (Yes my wife thought it was insane I did that). I am a little worried to say the least but I did not have the burnt carmel problem. The problem was I had some extra DME so I added it in with it and wound up with a total monster.

One thing is I used the wyeast 1728 and it only got me down to 1.042 but the body is really full. I don't know of any dry yeast that would get this flavor profile though. I think you are in the same boat as me (you mean't 1.130 og right?). Mine I did at 150 for 75 min and sparged at 160 for 30 min. (Fast fly). I think I will use the Wyeast next time I try too.

My lhbs suggested champagne yeast in the secondary to get it to 1.020. They also suggested oak chips for about 2 months to mellow it out. Since you are talking about scotch ales does it sound like it is worth a shot? I really don't want to ditch it because I went crazy and made it in to rocket fuel.

Beside the extra DME I did a a 2.5 hour boil. I also was told that I could have probably done a second running from the grain and got another fairly decent beer. Anyone else heard of that? I would have really liked to tried it in less than the year it will probably take to mature it. Burned like crazy when I tried it a bit ago but the overall scotch ale flavor was there with a defininte good body. Going to transfer it this weekend.
 
Two things,

One,  I NEVER suggest extract in a beer this big,  you cannot control the fermentability of the extract, that is unless you added it to the mash.  How much did you add?

Two, a VERY long mash. IMHO 75 min is not enough, at least 2 hours.

OK, three, you mentioned the "Rocket fuel" word, Did you say this because the alcohol is HOT (higher alcohols, fusels), or because it is just higher in alcohol?
Beers of this size MUST be fermented cool, wort temps in the 60s,  the cooler the better.  If it is a hot alcohol taste get a growler FULL of yeast from you local brewpub, any clean yeast will do, but this yeast is FRESH and ACTIVE, let it settle and pour off most of the beer leaving just enough to allow you to pour the yeast into the strong scotch ale.  The active yeast will help some, but time in a bottle conditioned beer will help minimize the heat.

I suspect that you are done.  The body of this beer is supposed to be really full.

You will not get to a FG of 1.020, as your lhbs suggests unless you make your 5 gal of beer 10 gallons of beer, in a word, don't.

That said I think you did a fine job!!!
From Greg Noonan's book, Classic Beer Styles Series on Scotch Ale
1850 140 Shilling Edinburgh Ale, OG 1.125  FG 1.055 and no, I didn't mistype that

A double mash recipe 140 Shilling Edinburgh Ale, OG 1.125  FG 1.055 (Second beer Twopenny 1.040 / 1.013)
I have brewed some awesome beers that have an FG of 1.065,  I was told by many, "don't you DARE throw it out".

Bottom line, bottle it and enjoy the fruits of what you brewed.  Remember how you got there and use that knowledge in your future beers. 

You done good, bottle it and enjoy it for what it is.

Fred
 
As far as the rocket fuel just because the alcohol is so high right now. Dont get me wrong it tastes good and the alc is fairly hidden because of the body. I was just trying to match the recipe included in the software and on the site. The original brewer took it to 1.019 and even the high end of the style says a fg of 1.035.

I am really unsure of the amount of dme I added. I added it to the first runnings to get the enzyme activity to help ensure fermentability. it work on a couple previous beers but they were only 1.080 og. I have a 50lb bag I bought and need to use it up that is the only reason I threw it in there. I did not think about adding it to the mash though. Will have to try that on the next one.

Do you think the oak chips will add to it or detract from the flavor?

Thanks,
Dave
 
Dave,

It's my recipe and I wouldn't add oak to it, but it is your brew and you are free to do so if you wish.  Oak would help "hide" a "hot" fusely alcohol, and a friend of mine just took First Place in specialty with a bourbon oak version of the beer.

Oak won't make it better or worse, just different.

Fred
 
Thankyou for this thread. I just today ordered an all grain Scottish 60 kit. It will be my first time brewing with maris otter. This carmelization sounds like the right thing to do.

 
MaltLicker said:
One of my favorite gadgets is the attached "lazy susan" spinner.  $5, low-profile, and carboys fit right on it. 

I was looking up osmotic shock and found all sorts of interesting reads on yeast.  Apparently, some yeast strains are furry and some are hairless (at the electron microscope level) and this difference contributes to their differing degrees of flocculation.  When furry yeast collide they adhere to each other like velcro, gain mass, and drop out.  Hairless yeast repel each other with their negative charge. 

Sooo, this lazy susan gadget may have the added benefit of creating many more opportunities for furry yeast to collide and drop out each time you spin it and raise the yeast back into suspension. 

<<Insert your own "resistance is futile" and "spinning vortex of hairy velcro yeast" joke here.>>
 
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